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Journalists aren’t the enemy of the people. But we’re not your friends either

nytimes.com

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Re: Journalists aren’t the enemy of the people. But we’re not your friends either

#41

Post by lukeramsden »

luckylion wrote: post #32
blhack wrote: post #17

When was the last time you read a news article about a topic where you are an expert, and walked away from it thinking that it would help laymen better understand the topic? Journalism is a bit of a personal frustration of mine. It's so important to the function of our society to have an informed population, but we don't, and it's because of the consistent lying that is done by journalists that we don't. Maybe not so…

> It's so important to the function of our society to have an informed population, but we don't, and it's because of the consistent lying that is done by journalists that we don't. Are you sure it's that important to have an informed citizenry? I'd say we've never had one, anywhere. We've had some people being informed, sure, but the masses have never been informed well. They've been lead and entertained. If it's tha…

> We've had some people being informed, sure, but the masses have never been informed well. They've been lead and entertained. If it's that important, how have we made it this far?

Your whole comment isn't exactly wrong, but what's worked in the past does not constitute a guaranteed path forward. We've also never had a populous with such ready access to information, both raw and interpreted, before.

Re: Journalists aren’t the enemy of the people. But we’re not your friends either

#42

Post by nickthemagicman »

luckylion wrote: post #32
blhack wrote: post #17

When was the last time you read a news article about a topic where you are an expert, and walked away from it thinking that it would help laymen better understand the topic? Journalism is a bit of a personal frustration of mine. It's so important to the function of our society to have an informed population, but we don't, and it's because of the consistent lying that is done by journalists that we don't. Maybe not so…

> It's so important to the function of our society to have an informed population, but we don't, and it's because of the consistent lying that is done by journalists that we don't. Are you sure it's that important to have an informed citizenry? I'd say we've never had one, anywhere. We've had some people being informed, sure, but the masses have never been informed well. They've been lead and entertained. If it's tha…

There's a place for cohesion but I don't think the news is it.

Re: Journalists aren’t the enemy of the people. But we’re not your friends either

#43

Post by dylan604 »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #26
sremani wrote: post #13

Now is a wonderful time to read these words of Wisdom of PG https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1278678974500147202 "Journalists used to have a monopoly on the news. This power bred restraint; whatever their private feelings, they avoided overt personal attacks. Now this power and the consequent restraint are both evaporating. Now they're just Twitter users."

Power doesn't breed restraint.

yeah, that seems like such an odd comment to make. power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Re: Journalists aren’t the enemy of the people. But we’re not your friends either

#45

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #26
sremani wrote: post #13

Now is a wonderful time to read these words of Wisdom of PG https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1278678974500147202 "Journalists used to have a monopoly on the news. This power bred restraint; whatever their private feelings, they avoided overt personal attacks. Now this power and the consequent restraint are both evaporating. Now they're just Twitter users."

Power doesn't breed restraint.

It can. As anyone who's been in a leadership position can tell you, having formal power imposes informal but very real constraints on what you can say and do.

Re: Journalists aren’t the enemy of the people. But we’re not your friends either

#46

Post by twic »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #26
sremani wrote: post #13

Now is a wonderful time to read these words of Wisdom of PG https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1278678974500147202 "Journalists used to have a monopoly on the news. This power bred restraint; whatever their private feelings, they avoided overt personal attacks. Now this power and the consequent restraint are both evaporating. Now they're just Twitter users."

Power doesn't breed restraint.

Yeah, these words of, well, whatever they are, are both illogical and ahistorical - journalists have been making personal attacks since the dawn of the field.

Re: Journalists aren’t the enemy of the people. But we’re not your friends either

#47

Post by grawprog »

luckylion wrote: post #32
blhack wrote: post #17

When was the last time you read a news article about a topic where you are an expert, and walked away from it thinking that it would help laymen better understand the topic? Journalism is a bit of a personal frustration of mine. It's so important to the function of our society to have an informed population, but we don't, and it's because of the consistent lying that is done by journalists that we don't. Maybe not so…

> It's so important to the function of our society to have an informed population, but we don't, and it's because of the consistent lying that is done by journalists that we don't. Are you sure it's that important to have an informed citizenry? I'd say we've never had one, anywhere. We've had some people being informed, sure, but the masses have never been informed well. They've been lead and entertained. If it's tha…

>What's more important for a nation than the media informing people is the media being on the same page and projecting a similar image

So like this?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/02/business/media/sinclair-n...

> I don't believe that the facts really matter that much overall. But if you lose the "shared reality", you're losing cohesion.

So you'd rather live in a made up fantasy world as long as we all share the same made up fantasy world?

I just can't understand how people can think like this...

1984 should really be assigned reading for everyone in high school.

Re: Journalists aren’t the enemy of the people. But we’re not your friends either

#48

Post by specialist »

rflrob wrote: post #38
specialist wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name one investigative report that was published against the wishes of the hierarchy. Whereas stories like this are innumerable: Whistleblowers punished for attempting to report unlawful rBGH in milk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Akre#Whistleblower_lawsui...

Ronan Farrow’s investigation of Harvey Weinstein was nearly squashed by NBC, where he worked at the time. He had to take it to The New Yorker.

Farrow is a terrific example. He's like the next Seymour Hersh.

Edit: The New Yorker was Hersh's home too. Of course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

Re: Journalists aren’t the enemy of the people. But we’re not your friends either

#49

Post by angel_j »

Journalism is not as important as journalist want us to think. Reporting is important. Clear, unbaised reporting gives us what we need to be informed. Nobody asks for story driven reporting, that is a fabrication.

A journalist is a reporter who wants to be Real Writer. Which is to say that they want to do more than give us the facts, they want us to know it via the filter of their experience and analysis. It is a self important profession, all the moereso because universities degree it. Who gets a degree in mere reporting?

Re: Journalists aren’t the enemy of the people. But we’re not your friends either

#50

Post by J-dawg »

blhack wrote: post #17

When was the last time you read a news article about a topic where you are an expert, and walked away from it thinking that it would help laymen better understand the topic? Journalism is a bit of a personal frustration of mine. It's so important to the function of our society to have an informed population, but we don't, and it's because of the consistent lying that is done by journalists that we don't. Maybe not so…

> When was the last time you read a news article about a topic where you are an expert, and walked away from it thinking that it would help laymen better understand the topic?

You don't even need to be an expert. I recall reading about someone who was on trial for downloading terrorism related material, or something like that. The article talked about him using "encryption so powerful that even experts from GCHQ couldn't crack it". I know very little about cryptography, but I do understand the whole point is that nobody can crack it.

I think this kind of low-level misinformation is particularly damaging. It's not even an incorrect statement, technically. But it has the effect of making the guy seem like much more of a mastermind than he really was, and spreading fear about this terrifying "encryption" thing that we all use every day, whether we realise it or not.

And then we all turn the page and read the next story...

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/65213-briefly-stated-the-ge...

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