U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#41

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:54 AM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #35

raxxorrax wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is true and that is why fleeing to Russia was the correct choice. Because the whistle blower channels don't work.

Russia was probably his only choice. Every other country would have extradited him. I doubt he is happy with having to live in Russia - the main benefactor of his leaks. It's impossible to imagine that he is able to reconcile his hatred of US spying with the malicious actions of the government he now relies on for protection. ...and that's the ultimate crux of this whole thing. When you go up against the US governmen…

I do think he asked himself that question.

edit: Saying Russia is the main benefactor of the leaks sounds like evidence of long lost cold war thinking to be honest.

Perhaps it would also be to the benefit of the targets of surveillance? Because if you wouldn't want to hand Russia a win, not subjecting the population to surveillance would have been quite the strategy in this case.

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#42

Post by betterunix2 » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:54 AM UTC

rbreve wrote: post #4

Will Trump pardon Snowden? that will be interesting.

Why should anyone think that would happen? Trump has no particular moral standard, does not particularly care whether or not laws are being followed, and only does what he believes will get some applause from his base at any given moment (and his base could not care less about Snowden).

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#43

Post by marvy » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:56 AM UTC

malwarebytess wrote: post #11

capableweb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how anything else could happen here, unless the USA is truly a lawless country where the rich and powerful is in control without any consequences. So yeah, Snowden will still be on the run.

It's going to the supreme court which will overturn I guarantee it.

Why so sure? Are you saying this program probably was legal after all and this court made a mistake?

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#44

Post by chrisbennet » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:58 AM UTC

I doubt Snowden was ignorant about what happened to those who "followed the rules". Their lives were ruined and nothing changed.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon....

"None of the lawful whistleblowers who tried to expose the government’s warrantless surveillance – and Drake was far from the only one who tried – had any success,” Devine told me. “They came forward and made their charges, but the government just said, ‘They’re lying, they’re paranoid, we’re not doing those things.’ And the whistleblowers couldn’t prove their case because the government had classified all the evidence. Whereas Snowden took the evidence with him, so when the government issued its usual denials, he could produce document after document showing that they were lying. That is civil disobedience whistleblowing.”

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#45

Post by polytely » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 11:58 AM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #27

parsimo2010 wrote: post #22

Since there are multiple comments about how the US government must/should pardon Snowden now, I'd like to make a top level comment to clarify some things about how this does not obligate the government to change his status. 1. The court only found that a single program exposed by Snowden was illegal. Snowden released a bunch of other information that was a violation of the NDA he signed when he was given a security c…

I think this is true and that is why fleeing to Russia was the correct choice. Because the whistle blower channels don't work.

Clarification: He was in Russia when the US cancelled his passport stranding him there, his intended destination was Ecuador. I think stranding him in Russia was a deliberate choice to discredit Snowden and it seems to be working very well.

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#46

Post by croon » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:00 PM UTC

hablameiato wrote: post #12

rbreve wrote: post #4

Will Trump pardon Snowden? that will be interesting.

Trump's base is very pro-military and a lot of them believe that Snowden put military lives at risk (and also confuse him with Chelsea Manning / Julian Assange). So I don't see how that could ever happen.

Which is ironic seeing how Assange helped him get elected.

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#47

Post by konjin » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:00 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #35

raxxorrax wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is true and that is why fleeing to Russia was the correct choice. Because the whistle blower channels don't work.

Russia was probably his only choice. Every other country would have extradited him. I doubt he is happy with having to live in Russia - the main benefactor of his leaks. It's impossible to imagine that he is able to reconcile his hatred of US spying with the malicious actions of the government he now relies on for protection. ...and that's the ultimate crux of this whole thing. When you go up against the US governmen…

>I doubt he is happy with having to live in Russia - the main benefactor of his leaks. It's impossible to imagine that he is able to reconcile his hatred of US spying with the malicious actions of the government he now relies on for protection.

You don't go nearly far enough. Every conviction for rape in the US benefits Russia by making the US government look weak. We should stop persecuting people for rape or be Kremlin stooges. Same for hate crimes. Only in total obedience to the President can we finally win against the Great Enemy. /s in case anyone is stupid enough to need it.

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#48

Post by roenxi » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:01 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #35

raxxorrax wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is true and that is why fleeing to Russia was the correct choice. Because the whistle blower channels don't work.

Russia was probably his only choice. Every other country would have extradited him. I doubt he is happy with having to live in Russia - the main benefactor of his leaks. It's impossible to imagine that he is able to reconcile his hatred of US spying with the malicious actions of the government he now relies on for protection. ...and that's the ultimate crux of this whole thing. When you go up against the US governmen…

> ...and that's the ultimate crux of this whole thing. When you go up against the US government, you have to ask yourself - is there any major world power out there that's better?

Even if this ruling gets overturned it is irrefutable evidence that, after considering the issues, a person who understood the legal issues might conclude that the people behind the mass surveillance program were engaged in a literal criminal conspiracy.

Snowden wasn't going up against the US government, he was going up against a rogue branch of the military. I hope there is some consensus here that illegal programs aren't legitimate.

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#49

Post by Applejinx » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:02 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #35

raxxorrax wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is true and that is why fleeing to Russia was the correct choice. Because the whistle blower channels don't work.

Russia was probably his only choice. Every other country would have extradited him. I doubt he is happy with having to live in Russia - the main benefactor of his leaks. It's impossible to imagine that he is able to reconcile his hatred of US spying with the malicious actions of the government he now relies on for protection. ...and that's the ultimate crux of this whole thing. When you go up against the US governmen…

Out of the frying pan into the fire… but I think human nature suggests that he is making himself happy with it. He's dependent on being fine with everything about Russia, because it's that or be killed in one place or the other: last thing he could afford to do is antagonize Putin, he pretty much has to become 'All Russia, all the time' and that's a powerful motivator to persuade himself that now he is in the GOOD place, and it's the USA that was uniquely wicked and bad.

Re: U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

#50

Post by Applejinx » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 12:04 PM UTC

kome wrote: post #8

capableweb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how anything else could happen here, unless the USA is truly a lawless country where the rich and powerful is in control without any consequences. So yeah, Snowden will still be on the run.

I fully agree. USA is lawless, for example U.S. blacklists International Criminal Court prosecutor over Afghanistan war crimes probe: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-icc-sanctions/u-s-bla...

Yeah, this needs to be fixed (not simply made worse and worse)