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Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea

#41

Post by saint-loup »

bambax wrote: post #10

Jacques Cousteau was a horrible person, both personally (bigot, anti-Semite, pathological liar) and professionally. It's inexplicable that he passes for a defender of nature when in reality he "explored" things by blowing them up with explosives and destroyed unique sites, etc. The grandson is a different person of course; but he invokes his grandfather's name as a reference and proof of competence. Don't fall for it…

Also:

“Cousteau was a showman, nothing more – a man prepared to do anything to sell his films and books, even if it meant martyring animals.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/117...

Re: Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea

#42

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

bambax wrote: post #26
gregoriol wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have sources for such accusations?

Plenty of sources (in French). For example: Anti-Semitism: https://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/1999/06/18/la-plonge... Cousteau's first wife Simone was independently wealthy and financed his boat (Calypso) and expeditions. She lived on board most of the time (yet never appears on camera). But he had another secret family (with kids) on the shore with a former flight attendant, since the late 70s. Simone only lear…

Regarding bigotry and antisemitism, there are, of course, caveats in the article you link:

Interrogé par Le Monde, Erik Orsenna confie : « C'est évidemment une lettre ignoble. Mais j'ai peur que si l'on ouvre toute la correspondance des Français de l'époque, et si l'on écoute l'enregistrement de leurs conversations, on découvrirait beaucoup d'autre antisémitisme de cette sorte. Autrement, Pétain n'aurait pu rencontrer en France un tel accord, et des horreurs comme les rafles de juillet 42, organisées par la police française, n'auraient pas pu se produire. A la différence de son frère, Pierre-Antoine, dirigeant de Je suis partout, ce que je dis dans mon discours, et à ma connaissance, Cousteau n'a jamais émis ce genre d'ignominie en public ni ne s'est engagé dans aucune action antisémite. »

Which is not to excuse anything, but it seems to me the majority of French society (indeed, European society) at the time held such views. Why single out Cousteau? And why do it in an article about a project undertaken by his grandson, who is not himself, I believe, accused of holding any of those biggotted views? Kin punishment is no less a barbaric practice than antisemitism (and islamophobia, as per the article above).

As henearkr says below, the rest of your comment is about Cousteau's personal life, which is neither here nor there. This is not the Daily Mail.

Re: Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea

#43

Post by rsynnott »

shakna wrote: post #33
postsantum wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised too. The anti-semite part seems to be dubious at best - the only link I found is someone's very liberal interpretation of some words

It doesn't take much to find it. Here's a quote from the man himself: > Ici, nous n'avons toujours pas de logement. Nous sommes actuellement campés dans un petit pavillon d'une pension de famille sur la Corniche. Ce n'est pas gai pour Simone, mais il n'y aura d'appartement convenable que quand on aura fichu à la porte tous les ignobles youtres qui nous encombrent. [0] A rough translation of the last sentence might be…

This is actually arguably _worse_ than it seems, when you put it in context. He wrote this is May 1941, in Vichy France. In 1942, Vichy France started 'kicking out' its Jewish population to occupied France, and thence to the concentration camps. Maybe Cousteau got his apartment after all...

Re: Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea

#44

Post by dusted »

bambax wrote: post #35
dusted wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He may have been all that, but it's hardly relevant. What's relevant is whether he made a net positive or negative impact on the world with his actions. My guess is he made more kids (and adults) happy with his programs, than he made sad with his personality and opinions. Say I listen to a LGBTIOAQ+* muscian who hates straight people like myself (they exist), who is a feminist who hates men like myself, but I enjoy t…

Listening to Michael Jackson's songs is one thing. Saying he was a great human being and wanting to put things to his name is another. If you like Cousteau's movies, good for you. But invoking his name and making him a hero is, I think, wrong.

Nobody said he was a good person to begin with ? It's hardly relevant to the discussion.

But the name is connected to the ocean and the grandson wanting to do somthing with the ocean, its not surprising that his name is invoked on that basis.

Re: Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea

#45

Post by mongol »

yodsanklai wrote: post #25
bambax wrote: post #10

Jacques Cousteau was a horrible person, both personally (bigot, anti-Semite, pathological liar) and professionally. It's inexplicable that he passes for a defender of nature when in reality he "explored" things by blowing them up with explosives and destroyed unique sites, etc. The grandson is a different person of course; but he invokes his grandfather's name as a reference and proof of competence. Don't fall for it…

I don't know to what extent this is true (heard similar claims before but never checked), but you should provide some sources when making such strong allegations.

At least the blowing up parts of nature with explosives was prominently featured in one of his films. Also the killing of "vicious sharks".

Re: Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea

#46

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

bambax wrote: post #32
postsantum wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised too. The anti-semite part seems to be dubious at best - the only link I found is someone's very liberal interpretation of some words

In many letters written during WWII Cousteau wishes to get rid of "youtres" which is a derogatory word for Jews much worse than the N word in English. The defense of Commandant Cousteau's anti-Semite private writings usually goes along the lines of "okay, but everybody did the same at the time". But this is not true. Most people did not actively call for the physical extermination of Jews in occupied France. They did…

So far you and others here have only shown one example of a letter where he is calling for jewish (and muslim) people to be kicked out. I have seen nothing about extermination etc.

Even more so- what the hell is this "not a good family" business all about? Seriously? The whole family? Because of one member? This is just mud-slinging.

Re: Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea

#47

Post by usrusr »

postsantum wrote: post #22
gregoriol wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have sources for such accusations?

I was surprised too. The anti-semite part seems to be dubious at best - the only link I found is someone's very liberal interpretation of some words

Also surprised. I was taking the dark sides of the Steven Zissou character in Anderson's The Life Aquatic as an added twist, not as art imitating life.

Re: Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea

#48

Post by dougmwne »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #8

Anyone else immediately thinking about Subnautica while looking at the article's teaser image? :)

One of my all-time favorite games. I think it's the most emotionally raw game I've ever played. There are strong moments of wonder, curiosity, and fear. And it inspires both love and fear of the real ocean (and viscerally taught me why cave divers are maniacs). Jacques Cousteau’s grandson should have gone into game development if he wanted to get more people interested in the sea.

Re: Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea

#49

Post by secondcoming »

bambax wrote: post #26
gregoriol wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have sources for such accusations?

Plenty of sources (in French). For example: Anti-Semitism: https://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/1999/06/18/la-plonge... Cousteau's first wife Simone was independently wealthy and financed his boat (Calypso) and expeditions. She lived on board most of the time (yet never appears on camera). But he had another secret family (with kids) on the shore with a former flight attendant, since the late 70s. Simone only lear…

I think you'd be surprised at how much infidelity is a part of being French.

Re: Jacques Cousteau’s grandson wants to build the ISS of the sea

#50

Post by mc32 »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #42
bambax wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of sources (in French). For example: Anti-Semitism: https://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/1999/06/18/la-plonge... Cousteau's first wife Simone was independently wealthy and financed his boat (Calypso) and expeditions. She lived on board most of the time (yet never appears on camera). But he had another secret family (with kids) on the shore with a former flight attendant, since the late 70s. Simone only lear…

Regarding bigotry and antisemitism, there are, of course, caveats in the article you link: Interrogé par Le Monde, Erik Orsenna confie : « C'est évidemment une lettre ignoble. Mais j'ai peur que si l'on ouvre toute la correspondance des Français de l'époque, et si l'on écoute l'enregistrement de leurs conversations, on découvrirait beaucoup d'autre antisémitisme de cette sorte. Autrement, Pétain n'aurait pu rencontre…

Regarding his mistress and other family, at the time this wasn’t a scandal for either elites or even common people. Having mistresses was then acceptable in France. Mitterrand was one such example, but of course there were many like him.
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