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Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

bbc.com

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Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#41

Post by dx87 »

triceratops wrote: post #29
Rumperuu wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised to find reading a book called Intelligence in an Insecure World [0] that the general consensus amongst intelligence studies scholars is apparently that there's no empirical evidence for the effectiveness of intelligence work and there probably never will be (although I read the book some time ago so I might be misremembering it). [0] https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Intelligence+in+An+Insecure+Worl...

For those of us who haven't read the book, could you summarize please? Anecdotally that claim seems untrue. Intelligence services have had a tangible effect on world history.[1][2][3] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture

It looks like both of the authors are academics with no actual experience in intelligence work. Considering how much intelligence work is classified and non-public, their conclusion sounds like the equivalent of claiming that there is no proof IT people are necessary because your computer works.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#42

Post by jessaustin »

throw_this_one wrote: post #40
theplague42 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you legitimately believe that US intelligence agencies are the bulwark against authoritarian government in the US?

No, I meant they are part of the bulwark against countries like China/Russia taking over the world.

This is a seriously nutty belief, that you claim to have. This year the increase in our military spending was bigger than Russia's entire military spending. We could cut our military budget in half and still dwarf China's.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#43

Post by jessaustin »

guerrilla wrote: post #34
aksss wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Kids detect sarcasm at about age 6, but don’t begin to see the intended humour until around age 10,” - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070803141811.h...

> Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture stating that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of the views being parodied. The original statement, by Nathan Poe, read: > Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to pa…

How old was Nathan Poe when he wrote that?

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#44

Post by thorstenn »

tpmx wrote: post #24
cstpdk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shouldn't. There's no political gain for any of the major parties. It also happens after several, relatively minor, cases of corruption and nepotism in the military and intelligence services (former high-ranking official just got 3months prison today). It stinks mostly of a corruption and several decades of lack of proper oversight

What kind of targets is he accused of targetting?

Danish citizens which is only allowed to be done by the police. And withholding of information to be reported.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#45

Post by triceratops »

dx87 wrote: post #41
triceratops wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of us who haven't read the book, could you summarize please? Anecdotally that claim seems untrue. Intelligence services have had a tangible effect on world history.[1][2][3] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture

It looks like both of the authors are academics with no actual experience in intelligence work. Considering how much intelligence work is classified and non-public, their conclusion sounds like the equivalent of claiming that there is no proof IT people are necessary because your computer works.

That's whatever the opposite of "appeal to authority" is. For starters there's a lot determined researchers can learn from declassified information about old ops and public information about current budgets and so on. And even if they worked in intelligence they wouldn't be able to publish anything classified.

What intrigues me is the claim "intelligence work is never useful". This is easily falsifiable with Wikipedia, which I assume even university professors deign to glance at on occasion. It's such a weird statement to make I feel like there's either more or GGP is mis-remembering something important from the book.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#46

Post by throw_this_one »

jessaustin wrote: post #42
throw_this_one wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I meant they are part of the bulwark against countries like China/Russia taking over the world.

This is a seriously nutty belief, that you claim to have. This year the increase in our military spending was bigger than Russia's entire military spending. We could cut our military budget in half and still dwarf China's.

Hah, what is funny is that you think military spending amounts means much at all.

First of all, there’s asymmetrical warfare. Russia’s investment in cyber, hypersonic, etc.

China’s investment in medium range missiles to create access denial for the US in the pacific.

Plus factor in that the US budget is bloated because of these corrupt fat cat defense industry companies, huge waste, etc...

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#47

Post by null_deref »

motohagiography wrote: post #4

When I read about western intelligence agencies, one can't help but look at the last decade or so and ask, what was it they said their job was again, specifically?

Can intelligence agencies be the case of "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." (A line from Futurama)?

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#48

Post by [deleted] »

gostsamo wrote: post #35
throw_this_one wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok so we have to play by the rules to the absolute T. But our adversaries like China/Russia can play dirty and anyway they want, because you say justice is absolute and black and white. Great.

Have you ever thought that maybe there was a reason for those rules to be imposed? It is really easy to put on the kindergarten act and to say that if the other side did it first, then it is okay. However, what is the difference between you and the other side then? The state has rather enormous power as it is and it is quite able to use it without letting the power trips of random individuals.

[deleted]

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#49

Post by gostsamo »

throw_this_one wrote: post #38
gostsamo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever thought that maybe there was a reason for those rules to be imposed? It is really easy to put on the kindergarten act and to say that if the other side did it first, then it is okay. However, what is the difference between you and the other side then? The state has rather enormous power as it is and it is quite able to use it without letting the power trips of random individuals.

If you understand these programs they have... they do a meta-analysis of huge amounts of data. So while they use your data, there isn’t somebody personally looking at your data. Whereas China/Russia has people tracking dissidents etc. Not even in the same realm. Im saying give a more nuanced legal approach so we can defend ourselves.

If it was just about meta data, maybe. However, the US (I accept that we are talking them now) have the lovely habit of imprisoning and torturing people on the bases of suspicion, without a due process, and without oversight or consequences for the fuckups. You see, the rules are exactly for the situations when some innocent bastard gets between the teeth of the machine and some middle manager orders for the body to be buried because murders look bad in the quarterly performance review.

Re: Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information

#50

Post by fmajid »

throw_this_one wrote: post #30
motohagiography wrote: post #4

When I read about western intelligence agencies, one can't help but look at the last decade or so and ask, what was it they said their job was again, specifically?

Hm maybe it is to protect against China/Russia/Iran/NK stealing our military secrets, you know those ones that protect you and your family from being absorbed into an authoritarian system where you have zero voting rights?

They can steal our secrets because the NSA couldn’t keep its own Crown Jewels secret, they were leaked by Shadow Brokers and subsequently used by the US’ enemies to infiltrate US civilian systems. In a very real sense, we would be safer against the Russians if the NSA didn’t exist.
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