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How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

christianpetroske.com

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Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#41

Post by doukdouk »

julienfr112 wrote: post #33
Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

Yes, default rates are quite high in France, but there are also subsides : JEI (jeune entreprise innovante), CIR (credit impot recherche) and CII (crédit impot innovation) and surrely others that can give you back a huge part of the taxes you pay. It's a PITA to fill, it keeps civil servants busy but hey, it can bring you tax and cotisations sociales (retirement / health) very low !!

All this feels so wasteful, especially the CIR and formerly the CICE. Instead of having low taxes, you have nominally high taxes and a bazillion paperwork-heavy to make them low. Might as well just make them low in the first place.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#42

Post by ttwy2020 »

victor106 wrote: post #34

From what a few of my colleagues told me: France is very racist. Apparently this is true in most of Europe. Everything looks okay on the surface but they are deep racial undertones. They tell me that believe it or not America is the one of the least racist countries. It does not mean there’s no racism in America just that it’s lesser. It’s easy for immigrants to assimilate into society in America than most places in…

As an immigrant who has been living in France (Paris) for 7 years, I didn't personally experience any racism, on the contrary, my collegues, neighbours and strangers, all treat me respectfully as I would treat them.

On the other hand, my wife, being a Hijabi, did experience it in subtle ways (if we can call it racism): sometimes not-so-friendly gazes from strangers, she can not go to the public swimpool because burkini is not allowed, and she struggled for a year to find work even though she had a good engineering degree (the reason was not always disclosed, but some recruiters did explicitly tell her that it was because of her Hijab). Which is different from the UK and other European countries from what I have been told.

I don't watch French media, but I hear that that's where racism mostly emerges. And I must admit, the behaviour of some immigrant communities (especially some north-african ones, saying this as a north-african myself), partly justifies the hostile attitude towards them.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#43

Post by belzebalex »

allan_s wrote: post #32
belzebalex wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, as a French I can only completely agree. The amount of paperwork is just absurd. For instance, when you create a company, you have to pay a separate fee (~200eur) to a private "official journal" to publish the fact that you're creating a company. That's just plain racket, and that kind of things is everywhere. France is dying, because France can't have a private sector because of its regulations. The fun part i…

> you have to pay a separate fee (~200eur) this number is incorrect , or you get fooled, I was working in a startup that was exactly helping people creating companies with the paperwork, including the step you're mentionning, and it was 20 to 30 euros , maybe 50 depending on the journal and option you take 200~300 euros was the price we billed for a startup creation including ALL the paperwork, admnistrative fee, pub…

One source: https://www.entreprises-et-droit.fr/annonce-legale-creation-...

Maybe did your company have a bulk pricing? Often, companies that offer "registration as a service" have a 200eur fee that excludes that kind of administrative fees. But 30eur for the announcement? Never seen that.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#44

Post by belzebalex »

julienfr112 wrote: post #33
Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

Yes, default rates are quite high in France, but there are also subsides : JEI (jeune entreprise innovante), CIR (credit impot recherche) and CII (crédit impot innovation) and surrely others that can give you back a huge part of the taxes you pay. It's a PITA to fill, it keeps civil servants busy but hey, it can bring you tax and cotisations sociales (retirement / health) very low !!

Typical bureaucratic mess. Completely unmanageable by normal humans. It's as if the law is made super complicated just to give a job to lawyers.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#45

Post by Juliate »

Uberphallus wrote: post #16
ldng wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet hundreds of companies are created every year. You just illustrate the tipical French mentality ingrained by media all year long. A comment full of cliché. If France is so bad, move out. You'll learn a thing or two in the process. Beginning with the grass is not always greener elsewhere.

Yet hundreds of companies die, too. > You just illustrate the tipical French mentality ingrained by media all year long. Living in France for 8 years and creating 2 companies doesn't seem to count, eh? Now I have my companies elsewhere in Europe and just pay my taxes on the revenues in France, only not to deal with the bureaucratic overhead. > If France is so bad, move out. The chauvinism is strong in this one. I'm i…

> The chauvinism is strong in this one. I'm in France, because I like things here. But startup culture isn't one of them.

I think this depends a lot on where you are, and who you connect to, and whose judgement you value too.

The mood felt very different to me between Paris intramuros, Paris suburb, Nantes, Bordeaux, Sophia, and even in each location, there are coexisting networks (installed businesses, "web" startups, industry ones, "marketing" ones, etc.) with different aims/cultures.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#46

Post by tasogare »

victor106 wrote: post #34

From what a few of my colleagues told me: France is very racist. Apparently this is true in most of Europe. Everything looks okay on the surface but they are deep racial undertones. They tell me that believe it or not America is the one of the least racist countries. It does not mean there’s no racism in America just that it’s lesser. It’s easy for immigrants to assimilate into society in America than most places in…

> France is very racist

Literally the biggest lie I read here for a long time. Yeah France is so racist that 20% of the population is of foreign non-white ancestry, nationality is easy to get (notably got automatic if botn on national soil), no welfare programs discriminates on nationality basis, illegal aliens are rarely expelled (being sentenced is not more automatic ground for it), there is laws forbidding criticizing immigration, land are given for cheap to build foreign religious buildings, etc. If anything France isn’t putting it’s original citizens first enough. The super high tax rates explained elsewhere is in great part used to fund immigrants life.

Also from the point of view of most French, the important thing is speaking good French and integrating well with our culture, regardless of skin color.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#47

Post by dtoma »

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

I wish we could get some info from an expert on that topic, as a French person some of my friends said they were surprised how much help they got from the government (grants, tax rebates, etc.) and they ended up doing all their software development in France, while the hardware was built in China, because they found the dev quality/cost ratio was so good.

There's also money you can get for creating a startup if you volunteer when your company does a round of layoffs for example.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#48

Post by lm28469 »

Uberphallus wrote: post #16
ldng wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet hundreds of companies are created every year. You just illustrate the tipical French mentality ingrained by media all year long. A comment full of cliché. If France is so bad, move out. You'll learn a thing or two in the process. Beginning with the grass is not always greener elsewhere.

Yet hundreds of companies die, too. > You just illustrate the tipical French mentality ingrained by media all year long. Living in France for 8 years and creating 2 companies doesn't seem to count, eh? Now I have my companies elsewhere in Europe and just pay my taxes on the revenues in France, only not to deal with the bureaucratic overhead. > If France is so bad, move out. The chauvinism is strong in this one. I'm i…

> because I like things here

Do you think it would stay the same without all the regulations you love to hate ?

You can't complain about paying taxes and at the same time say you love France, 80% of the things that makes France a good country to live in are financed by taxes one way or another. Just look over the pond if you want to see how France would look without regulations, 1930 France is today's US in term of workers rights and social security. I'm sure it's perfect if you're in the top 15%, not so much otherwise

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#49

Post by realusername »

doukdouk wrote: post #41
julienfr112 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, default rates are quite high in France, but there are also subsides : JEI (jeune entreprise innovante), CIR (credit impot recherche) and CII (crédit impot innovation) and surrely others that can give you back a huge part of the taxes you pay. It's a PITA to fill, it keeps civil servants busy but hey, it can bring you tax and cotisations sociales (retirement / health) very low !!

All this feels so wasteful, especially the CIR and formerly the CICE. Instead of having low taxes, you have nominally high taxes and a bazillion paperwork-heavy to make them low. Might as well just make them low in the first place.

Yeah that's my point of view as well on the French system, going after tax exemptions is almost a full time job since there are so many of them. And of course the companies who end up benefiting from those are most often the least deserving...
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