Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#41

Post by aaomidi » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

rbecker wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I completely agree with it. Epic publicly and blatantly bypassed multiple App Store restrictions with their move today. App Store policy is not law - its terms are unilaterally set by Apple. Citing it as justification makes no sense.

The law allows for Apple to do this. You don’t have to use Apple products. You don’t have to use the Apple transaction system. It is not a commons, it is not a monopoly. There are other platforms and e-commerce solutions. If you want to regulate Apple’s behavior, introduce a law (I would support a law to regulate Apple’s cut of App Store transactions). Fortnite getting booted isn’t going to get a bill sponsored or ha…

Except there was literally a hearing last week, and multiple plans in EU to stop this sort of behavior, exactly because of the evidence that companies like Epic Games bring to light.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#42

Post by stefan_ » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #27

Apple platform is closed like gaming consoles. Epic almost certainly knew this was going to happen. I think they are trying to build a case for regulatory intervention. US Antitrust is still in the 80's Chicago School era where antitrust is solely based on consumer benefit and and efficiency. EU has more broad approach where economic power in the public interest is important. It may be up to the EU to change how Appl…

This seems like a close and shut case of consumer harm right here.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#43

Post by aaomidi » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

jaegerpicker wrote: post #34

rbecker wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I completely agree with it. Epic publicly and blatantly bypassed multiple App Store restrictions with their move today. App Store policy is not law - its terms are unilaterally set by Apple. Citing it as justification makes no sense.

The own the platform, they designed it, built it, and maintain it. They have every right to set the rules for it.

And they operate within the legal framework of various jurisdictions, which can and will force Apple to change their behavior.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#44

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #24

threatofrain wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

Each app already has its own terms of service

[deleted]

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#45

Post by ardit33 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

jaegerpicker wrote: post #34

rbecker wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I completely agree with it. Epic publicly and blatantly bypassed multiple App Store restrictions with their move today. App Store policy is not law - its terms are unilaterally set by Apple. Citing it as justification makes no sense.

The own the platform, they designed it, built it, and maintain it. They have every right to set the rules for it.

Until regulations steps in, and mandates to be more fair and open, or to break up the company, or to allow multiple app stores (by competitors).

At the end of the day, and iPad is a general computing device, and it will probably be treated as such in courts, where there are precedents on this.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#46

Post by ecf » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

xoxoy wrote: post #8

Fortnite of course expected this: seems like they’ve prepared a short video mocking Apple’s old super bowl ad 1984 to premiere in an hour https://twitter.com/fortnitegame/status/1293984290326433792?...

Doesn’t Epic take a cut out of every single purchase made of a game built with Unreal Engine?

Seems kinda hypocritical that they’re taking this stance when their licensing model is arguably just as burdensome on developers.

In my opinion, Epic should not put their app on the App Store if they don’t like the terms, just as they would tell a developer to not use their engine if they don’t like the terms.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#47

Post by shajznnckfke » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #30

threatofrain wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

Additionally, 10 different payment systems. I trust Apple. I'd like to buy whatever subscription, but now "Joe's email app" wants my credit card number. Now I have to figure out if I trust them as well.

I’m a huge fan of Apple Pay and do not begrudge the 0.15% cut they take on those transactions. The cut they take for App Store purchases is over 100x that amount, which is obscene.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#48

Post by paulgb » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

jaegerpicker wrote: post #34

rbecker wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I completely agree with it. Epic publicly and blatantly bypassed multiple App Store restrictions with their move today. App Store policy is not law - its terms are unilaterally set by Apple. Citing it as justification makes no sense.

The own the platform, they designed it, built it, and maintain it. They have every right to set the rules for it.

Even if this is true, the doublespeak of this being about protecting the user (as opposed to the shareholder) is tiring.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#49

Post by vegcel » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #21

FreakyT wrote: post #4

Really hoping regulators crack down hard on Apple's clearly anticompetitive practices. If Apple allowed sideloading the entire point would be, of course, moot, but Apple's continued refusal to allow this is really the biggest problem, IMO.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

Conversely, one of the things I miss about Android apps is the competition. I recall there being several (free) apps that fulfill some function on Android, and then when switching to iPhone, the apps that provide that function costing $10+ dollars.

There's an obvious trade off for security/reliability, but I've still come across my fair share of terrible iPhone apps. Android definitely has a more freeware/open source vibe.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#50

Post by stefan_ » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:21 PM UTC

donor20 wrote: post #25

elliekelly wrote: post #12

What is Apple’s end game here? It seems like they’re fighting a losing battle and digging their own antitrust grave. Pretty clever on Epic’s part to specifically highlight how Apple’s app store fee hits the user directly. Pretty short-sighted of Apple to immediately pull an app for providing consumers with additional disclosure about where their money is going.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

Yes, the monopoly comments are so crazy. Because it turns out modern antitrust law isn't about monopolies at all.