Wellbeing levels fell with the pandemic but improved under lockdown, data shows • Hacker News Board

Re: Wellbeing levels fell with the pandemic but improved under lockdown, data shows

#41

Post by zaroth » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

cirgue wrote: post #29

eric_b wrote: post #9

Lockdowns are terrible for human mental health. We're not meant to live that way. I mean, we put people in prison as punishment because it sucks. I don't care what these people read in to the data - lockdowns are hurting everyone's mental health and making people act strangely. We know a lot about COVID now - who's most vulnerable, how likely people are to die, etc. What staggers me is that huge groups of people are…

I am 100% ok grunting through a lockdown if it shortens the duration of this awful fucking pandemic. The current soft restrictions with no clear endgame is 1000 times more shitty than having to hole up in your apartment knowing that it will end all the other restrictions sooner.

What if the lockdowns just lengthen the duration of the pandemic and the ultimate endpoints are nearly identical?

Some amount of lengthening is essential to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed, of course. In many lockdown environments, the target case numbers are much lower than necessary for that goal, if not zero.

Re: Wellbeing levels fell with the pandemic but improved under lockdown, data shows

#42

Post by the_gastropod » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

tdfx wrote: post #37

cirgue wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 100% ok grunting through a lockdown if it shortens the duration of this awful fucking pandemic. The current soft restrictions with no clear endgame is 1000 times more shitty than having to hole up in your apartment knowing that it will end all the other restrictions sooner.

I've heard this many times but I don't understand the thinking behind it. How could a lockdown shorten the duration of a pandemic? AFAIK there's only three ways a pandemic ends: (1) eradication: we control the spread so effectively through testing, tracing, and isolation that no more new people are infected (2) herd immunity: enough people get infected that the potential pool of new hosts causes the transmission rate…

Option 1 is the ideal case, yes. And New Zealand pulled it off (unfortunately, it was undone when a covid patient re-entered the country). But it's not the only benefit. Reducing the number of cases obviously reduces the risk of the disease spreading.

The idea is to seriously lock down / wear masks, etc. for ~6 weeks to get to a point where the case-load is so small that it's manageable with little effort (not back to 100% normal). Instead, the U.S. strategy has been to put in medium effort / inconvenience indefinitely.

Re: Wellbeing levels fell with the pandemic but improved under lockdown, data shows

#43

Post by uallth00 » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #9

Lockdowns are terrible for human mental health. We're not meant to live that way. I mean, we put people in prison as punishment because it sucks. I don't care what these people read in to the data - lockdowns are hurting everyone's mental health and making people act strangely. We know a lot about COVID now - who's most vulnerable, how likely people are to die, etc. What staggers me is that huge groups of people are…

One of my favorite ideas comes from the Dali Llama who suggests considering how ones own application of agency has created the scenario they are in.

The limbic system floods the brain with chemicals and we react with the most accessible form of motor agency given the context.

Turn the media off. Avoid the emotional hive mind which is built on making you feel exactly as you’re reacting. Impulsive, anxious, the slippery slope that ends it all is around the corner.

Because if it ends up being the case it will be a self fulfilling prophecy thanks to anxious, paranoid idiots pushing buttons they shouldn’t.

I live outside the burbs and work remote. My daily habit hasn’t changed much.

Your bubble isn’t everyone’s

I’m pretty convinced the anxiety is from the reality of the virus itself and the anxiety is misattributed to “lockdown” thanks to propaganda.

Propaganda 101: use emotional moment to insert talking point. Pandemic is a nice organic anxiety to use to nudge people towards fear of economic collapse.

You’re doing this to yourself.

Re: Wellbeing levels fell with the pandemic but improved under lockdown, data shows

#44

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

the_gastropod wrote: post #42

tdfx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this many times but I don't understand the thinking behind it. How could a lockdown shorten the duration of a pandemic? AFAIK there's only three ways a pandemic ends: (1) eradication: we control the spread so effectively through testing, tracing, and isolation that no more new people are infected (2) herd immunity: enough people get infected that the potential pool of new hosts causes the transmission rate…

Option 1 is the ideal case, yes. And New Zealand pulled it off (unfortunately, it was undone when a covid patient re-entered the country). But it's not the only benefit. Reducing the number of cases obviously reduces the risk of the disease spreading. The idea is to seriously lock down / wear masks, etc. for ~6 weeks to get to a point where the case-load is so small that it's manageable with little effort (not back t…

New Zealand officials don't currently believe that their new outbreak was caused by a patient re-entering the country - they haven't found any link between the detected cases and overseas returnees.

No country I'm aware of believes that even the smallest outbreaks can be handled with little effort. Health officials across the globe have been consistently saying that the coronavirus will spread unless people stay very far from normal.

Re: Wellbeing levels fell with the pandemic but improved under lockdown, data shows

#45

Post by grensley » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #9

Lockdowns are terrible for human mental health. We're not meant to live that way. I mean, we put people in prison as punishment because it sucks. I don't care what these people read in to the data - lockdowns are hurting everyone's mental health and making people act strangely. We know a lot about COVID now - who's most vulnerable, how likely people are to die, etc. What staggers me is that huge groups of people are…

> I don't care what these people read in to the data

I really didn't expect this to be the top take on HackerNews. This reads like anti-masker rhetoric.

Re: Wellbeing levels fell with the pandemic but improved under lockdown, data shows

#46

Post by vorpalhex » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

the_gastropod wrote: post #33

eric_b wrote: post #9

Lockdowns are terrible for human mental health. We're not meant to live that way. I mean, we put people in prison as punishment because it sucks. I don't care what these people read in to the data - lockdowns are hurting everyone's mental health and making people act strangely. We know a lot about COVID now - who's most vulnerable, how likely people are to die, etc. What staggers me is that huge groups of people are…

> We know a lot about COVID now - who's most vulnerable, how likely people are to die I find this sentiment as funny as I do frustrating. This thing has been around ~8 months. We know some about this virus. We are still completely ignorant about the long-term effects. And we're continuously finding troubling signs about it. It's looking like even mild cases can result in long-term brain, heart, and lung damage [1]. T…

> If we'd taken it seriously earlier like virtually every other modern civilization, we'd be living in much more normal circumstances today.

That's a line I hear repeated but it doesn't seem to align to reality. Even places that have taken this deadly seriously have seen reoccurent outbreaks including Hong Kong[^1] and Tokyo[^2]. Likewise some areas that had very loose restrictions initially.. never had it that bad.

The reality is that the lockdowns and shelter in place orders did very little, and factors such as airports and borders are much stronger indicators of whether we'll see more virus spread. Masks, including homemade masks, do seem to be very effective and pushing people to use them seems to make meaningful differences - but it's not by itself sufficient (at least not homemade masks).

> And yet, our "freedom"-loving compatriots bitch and complain nonstop about it,

Part of freedom means the freedom to disagree. Sure, you can disagree with them as well and they may be entirely wrong - and that's still OK. That isn't a failure of freedom, it's a success story and I'd much rather have some idiots shouting loudly than black bag them by secret police or have "Winnie the Pooh" start getting censored in private messages.

[^1]: They're past the worst of their resurgence from the current looks, but https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/hong-kong-sees-fewest-... has a nice graph showing their second spike

[^2]: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/08/04/national/japan-...

Re: Wellbeing levels fell with the pandemic but improved under lockdown, data shows

#47

Post by SubiculumCode » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #9

Lockdowns are terrible for human mental health. We're not meant to live that way. I mean, we put people in prison as punishment because it sucks. I don't care what these people read in to the data - lockdowns are hurting everyone's mental health and making people act strangely. We know a lot about COVID now - who's most vulnerable, how likely people are to die, etc. What staggers me is that huge groups of people are…

Working from home with my family around and no commute; I was meant to live this way.

But if they were not here? Being alone all the time sucks

Re: Wellbeing levels fell with the pandemic but improved under lockdown, data shows

#48

Post by zaroth » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 4:34 PM UTC

the_gastropod wrote: post #42

tdfx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this many times but I don't understand the thinking behind it. How could a lockdown shorten the duration of a pandemic? AFAIK there's only three ways a pandemic ends: (1) eradication: we control the spread so effectively through testing, tracing, and isolation that no more new people are infected (2) herd immunity: enough people get infected that the potential pool of new hosts causes the transmission rate…

Option 1 is the ideal case, yes. And New Zealand pulled it off (unfortunately, it was undone when a covid patient re-entered the country). But it's not the only benefit. Reducing the number of cases obviously reduces the risk of the disease spreading. The idea is to seriously lock down / wear masks, etc. for ~6 weeks to get to a point where the case-load is so small that it's manageable with little effort (not back t…

New Zealand is the perfect example. They have zero immunity, therefore they have to stay absolutely quarantined from the rest of the world indefinitely.

If a vaccine is only partially effective, and their tolerance for cases is literally lockdown at the first case, then they will never re-open.

Re: Wellbeing levels fell with the pandemic but improved under lockdown, data shows

#49

Post by ouid » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 4:35 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #9

Lockdowns are terrible for human mental health. We're not meant to live that way. I mean, we put people in prison as punishment because it sucks. I don't care what these people read in to the data - lockdowns are hurting everyone's mental health and making people act strangely. We know a lot about COVID now - who's most vulnerable, how likely people are to die, etc. What staggers me is that huge groups of people are…

>We're not meant to live that way

I'm not sure what you think this means. Are you arguing that we're "meant to live" by commuting to work and gathering in cafes and restaurants?

Humans are extraordinarily adaptive. We live anywhere that food can be grown, and oxygen is readily available. We aren't "meant" to do anything. All you are announcing is that you, personally, don't like to adapt.

Re: Wellbeing levels fell with the pandemic but improved under lockdown, data shows

#50

Post by andybak » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 4:36 PM UTC

grensley wrote: post #45

eric_b wrote: post #9

Lockdowns are terrible for human mental health. We're not meant to live that way. I mean, we put people in prison as punishment because it sucks. I don't care what these people read in to the data - lockdowns are hurting everyone's mental health and making people act strangely. We know a lot about COVID now - who's most vulnerable, how likely people are to die, etc. What staggers me is that huge groups of people are…

> I don't care what these people read in to the data I really didn't expect this to be the top take on HackerNews. This reads like anti-masker rhetoric.

It doesn't mesh with my personal experience at all so at the very least that user is massively generalising (or maybe I'm a bizarre outlier)