I used to know someone whose favorite "are they kidding or serious" joke was that octopi were aliens.
This often lead to a discussion about how we'd be an aquatic civilization of octopi lived much longer than they do.
What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)
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Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)
#42Paywalled. Please will the OP or somebody provide a readable link. Edit: For anybody who had the same problem as me, try using a different device or privacy mode. I can't access it on my PC due to the paywall but can on my phone (same, synced browser).
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Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)
#43It's an old trope in Sci Fi that alien intelligences would be so different from us that we couldn't even begin to comprehend them. Octopuses belie that idea... although we share some DNA, our last common ancestors barely had a nervous system, so any similarities in cognition between us really are the product of paralllel evolution. And since their environments are also very different from ours, this parallel evoution…
> Although first we'd do well to do a better job at communicating with and respecting the many non-human sentient beings on this planet.
Given our experience with the octopus I suppose the first recognizably intelligent alien better hope it doesn't taste good fried.
Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
For context so that people don't need to click on links: the first book is about uplifted, sentient spiders; the second one is about uplifted octopii. Both are absolutely great, I highly recommend them!
Didn't want to provide spoilers :)
I don't think these are spoilers, but selling points :).
Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)
#45The novel Blindsight by Peter Watts considers the issues humans would face in contact with similarly alien aliens. It's an intriguing read. Available under CC: https://rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm#CC
Blindsight reminded me a lot of Lem's Fiasko[1] which I read as a teenager in the 80's. It's worth to read all of his 'first contact' themed ones. They all use a slightly different lens on the same theme: Eden, Solaris, The Invincible & His Master's Voice [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiasco_(novel)
Also, The Europa Report film, where astronauts search for life in the liquid ocean beneath ice on one of Jupiter's moons.
Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)
#46It's an old trope in Sci Fi that alien intelligences would be so different from us that we couldn't even begin to comprehend them. Octopuses belie that idea... although we share some DNA, our last common ancestors barely had a nervous system, so any similarities in cognition between us really are the product of paralllel evolution. And since their environments are also very different from ours, this parallel evoution…
> Although first we'd do well to do a better job at communicating with and respecting the many non-human sentient beings on this planet. Given our experience with the octopus I suppose the first recognizably intelligent alien better hope it doesn't taste good fried.
Or the other way around
Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)
#47I would recommend these scifi books https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25499718-children-of-tim... And https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40376072-children-of-rui... Lots of fun reading them, great author :)
I've also read both books. It's a good exploration into the minds of spiders and octopuses, if given "uplift". A recent study I read about shows that spider intelligence is ill-studied but actually holds a wealth of interesting facets. Jumping spiders plan, such as when hunting, and can be surprised. They are also doing elaborate planning when building webs, and make adjustments to strength/stickiness in webs based o…
If you're recommending A Deepness in the Sky, you should also recommend A Fire Upon the Deep by the same author (Vernor Vinge). A very different take on alien intelligence, and possibly more relevant to the octopus model in that it covers distributed selves, albeit over individuals rather than limbs.
Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Although first we'd do well to do a better job at communicating with and respecting the many non-human sentient beings on this planet. Given our experience with the octopus I suppose the first recognizably intelligent alien better hope it doesn't taste good fried.
Or the other way around
If you want a picture of the future, imagine an intelligent root snacking on a human face - forever.
Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)
#49It's an old trope in Sci Fi that alien intelligences would be so different from us that we couldn't even begin to comprehend them. Octopuses belie that idea... although we share some DNA, our last common ancestors barely had a nervous system, so any similarities in cognition between us really are the product of paralllel evolution. And since their environments are also very different from ours, this parallel evoution…
Cephalopods are magnificent. I knew they were smart and curious but I was caught off guard the first time I realized that a curious cuttlefish was making eye contact with me. No other reef animals exhibit anything like this kind of intelligence; the dissimilarity is striking. When you start to doubt your interpretation they quite literally flash their emotional state through color changes that seem as telling as huma…
We're all home (probably), but that [1] is NSFW! (it wasn't totally obvious to me before clicking, I thought it would be a text description)
Re: What's it like to be an Octopus? (2017)
#50Octopus intelligence is phenomenal achievement when you consider the restrictions they have: 1. No social interaction or learning. Octopuses[1] live alone. 2. Short life span. Most of them live only few years in the wild. ---- [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-many-plura...
I think that lifespan it is their biggest disadvantage, and the reason why there is no octopus civilization, unless you want to go beyond the Mountains of Madness. Modern humans for instance spend more time learning than the lifespan of most animals. If we were limited to a lifespan of 20 years, which is typical for a mammal of our weight class, human society would have been very different. Make it 5 years and there…
Answer to both of your questions is that there was no evolutionary path.
Evolution is blind and path dependent. It only responds to differential pressures affecting just now. Evolution is like
greedy search https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greedy_algorithm
They didn't develop longevity because intelligence + longlivety does not provide immediate advantage.
They didn't develop collective strategies because they the path path to collective strategies providing gains is too long or too unlikely to happen.