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Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

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Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#41

Post by AstralStorm »

prepend wrote: post #5

I would like to see some real statistical analysis. This analysis seems rather worthless for purposes of determining if insurance rates are racially biased. Here’s an example of a crazy statement given the R2 is .309 “ The chart above shows some correlation between higher prices for renters insurance and the percentage of Blacks living in the city.” I’m no statistician, but I think saying that an R2 of .309 is “some…

Something at least as good as the stats done by British government, right? I'd like to see these sorts of multifactor analysis done as well.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#42

Post by hnlurker »

anamexis wrote: post #22
underpand wrote: post #8

I'm disappointed that they didn't look at the very obvious input into insurance risk models: crime rate. It's very dishonest since it's very obvious. Either complete incompetence or dishonesty.

I think jbarciauskas said this better than I can, but how is it at all dishonest? Yes, there may be specific inputs that cause these rates to be what they are, and those inputs may be obvious. But the conclusion seems equally obvious, and perfectly honest: insurance costs more in Black neighborhoods. Acknowledging the inputs only makes a stronger argument for institutionalized racism.

It's dishonest because non-black people in those "black neighborhoods" are also paying the "racist" premium. It's not like non-black people are paying 10% less while living on the same block and purchasing the same insurance.

Car insurance varies by how many miles you drive on average, because, shocker, driving more miles means a higher risk of a driving accident. What happens if the data reveal that black people drive more on average and subsequently have to pay more for auto insurance?? Relatedly, is it sexist that men pay more than women for the exact same policy on the exact same car in the exact same zip code? Since men get into more serious accidents, it doesn't appear to be sexist to me..

Univariate analyses like this need to mump off and die.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#43

Post by anamexis »

hnlurker wrote: post #42
anamexis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think jbarciauskas said this better than I can, but how is it at all dishonest? Yes, there may be specific inputs that cause these rates to be what they are, and those inputs may be obvious. But the conclusion seems equally obvious, and perfectly honest: insurance costs more in Black neighborhoods. Acknowledging the inputs only makes a stronger argument for institutionalized racism.

It's dishonest because non-black people in those "black neighborhoods" are also paying the "racist" premium. It's not like non-black people are paying 10% less while living on the same block and purchasing the same insurance. Car insurance varies by how many miles you drive on average, because, shocker, driving more miles means a higher risk of a driving accident. What happens if the data reveal that black people dri…

> non-black people in those "black neighborhoods" are also paying the "racist" premium. It's not like non-black people are paying 10% less while living on the same block and purchasing the same insurance.

Yes, of course this is true, no scare quotes necessary. I don't see the article making any claims to the contrary either, so again, where is the dishonesty? To use your example, if there was an article claiming that men pay more for car insurance, would you call that dishonest?

The point is not that insurance companies are directly looking at people's race and charging them differently based on it. The point is that all of those covariate factors that make the insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods are themselves the result of institutional racism, unless you think it's just coincidence that Black neighborhoods have higher crime rates, lower employment, etc.

It follows fairly directly that if predominantly Black neighborhoods pay more for insurance, then Black people pay more for insurance. Yes, if a white person moves into a Black neighborhood, they will also pay more for insurance; this is no less the result of institutional racism.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#44

Post by hnlurker »

anamexis wrote: post #43
hnlurker wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's dishonest because non-black people in those "black neighborhoods" are also paying the "racist" premium. It's not like non-black people are paying 10% less while living on the same block and purchasing the same insurance. Car insurance varies by how many miles you drive on average, because, shocker, driving more miles means a higher risk of a driving accident. What happens if the data reveal that black people dri…

> non-black people in those "black neighborhoods" are also paying the "racist" premium. It's not like non-black people are paying 10% less while living on the same block and purchasing the same insurance. Yes, of course this is true, no scare quotes necessary. I don't see the article making any claims to the contrary either, so again, where is the dishonesty? To use your example, if there was an article claiming that…

The dishonesty is presenting this as a racist thing. The dishonesty is also in the implication that insurance companies are racist rather than simply responding to the market. The article is trying to drum up outrage at well established insurance companies in order to direct money to their business.

Institutional racism. Systemic racism. Oh bother.. You seem pretty confident about it without presenting any evidence. You haven't even identified which institution. I hate racism, it's useless and frankly stupid. Just because groups have different outcomes doesn't make it racist. You probably think that Google is systemically sexist because it is largely male in STEM departments. Google might be, but simply having male dominated departments does NOT warrant that conclusion.

NOTE: I used scare quotes around "black neighborhoods" because they are just American neighborhoods. Contrary to popular opinion/belief, we aren't (still or yet) living in a country where your skin color allows or prevents you from living in any particular neighborhood. Those that claim otherwise, or even suggest it through veiled implication, ought to present some actual evidence or STFU.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#45

Post by anamexis »

hnlurker wrote: post #44
anamexis wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non-black people in those "black neighborhoods" are also paying the "racist" premium. It's not like non-black people are paying 10% less while living on the same block and purchasing the same insurance. Yes, of course this is true, no scare quotes necessary. I don't see the article making any claims to the contrary either, so again, where is the dishonesty? To use your example, if there was an article claiming that…

The dishonesty is presenting this as a racist thing. The dishonesty is also in the implication that insurance companies are racist rather than simply responding to the market. The article is trying to drum up outrage at well established insurance companies in order to direct money to their business. Institutional racism. Systemic racism. Oh bother.. You seem pretty confident about it without presenting any evidence.…

If you don't believe institutional racism exists, or even Black neighborhoods, I'm not going to try to convince you. Sorry.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#46

Post by lightgreen »

dcolkitt wrote: post #36
lightgreen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Women tend to be burdened with more responsibilities than men, and thus have less time to carefully comparison shop. Or maybe because women care more about brands and men just pick what’s cheaper. Or maybe because men need smaller variety of options. Or maybe because men consume more razors per store visitor. Or maybe because men spend less time in stores per dollar spent and selling for men is cheaper. Or a dozen…

American adult women have approximately 4 hours less of leisure time per week: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/03/14/chapter-6-time-in...

That fact does not directly explain why women products are more expensive.

Re: Is insurance more expensive in Black neighborhoods?

#47

Post by tathougies »

diab0lic wrote: post #16
burner831234 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever reason is the frustration. Its not "whatever reason" or some huge unknown. Its decades and decades of policy including redlining and developers who openly didn't rent or let black americans buy homes and banks that openly gave black americans with great credit shittier loans while the govt bankrolled the development of suburbs for white people. I realize I'm frustratedly typing and I think my frustration is…

I'm not the author of the GP post but I don't think (s)he was implying the reason was unknown so much as stating that there IS a reason, but not committing to one single reason so as to not have to argue or justify it.

That's right... we all know the reasons behind this... it's not insurance rates. Insurance rates are a reflection of the problem, not the source.
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