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Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#41

Post by tekgnos »

newsbinator wrote: post #30
zzz61831 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that safe, not like vitamin C safe. Especially not in doses sold in pills in pharmacies around the world.

I still can't figure out the safe + effective dosage of Vitamin D. I was taking 1,000mg a day and that didn't seem to move the needle on my Vitamin D blood work. In recent weeks I've been taking 4,000mg/day (with K2), which is 4x what I've had pharmacists recommend. I plan to keep that up for a couple more weeks while I'm under quarantine (recently flew from a high-risk country to a less high-risk country). After tha…

Studies of pale skinned Norwegiens who go in the sun during summer show they make 10,000-20,000IU equivalent a day. Results will vary depending on skin tone and the position of the sun (lower in the sky means no vitamin D as the right wavelengths of light are not hitting your skin)

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-from-sun#time...

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#42

Post by dx87 »

r00fus wrote: post #31
BurningFrog wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically true, but you should still eat vitamin D supplements. It's very cheap and safe, so worst case it has less effect than you hope. You can overdose, but you have to really crazy with the dosage. Also 1: Vitamin D supplements do cure rickets. Also 2: All of us who eat supplements should show up in the stats as high in vitamin D, so the data does partially cover that case.

What brand/strength of VitaminD supplements do you all take?

I take Jocko D3[1], it's $25 for a year supply. The dosage is on the high end though, it's 5000IU per dose whereas doctors recommend 4000IU per day. It's important to get bloodwork done once you take it, because if you aren't deficient on vitamin D, it can have adverse health effects if your levels get too high.

https://originmaine.com/nutrition/jocko-d3-gel-capsules-360c...

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#43

Post by graeme »

sharpneli wrote: post #18
ve55 wrote: post #2

Although this is a notable finding it's important to remember that it doesn't lead to the conclusion that supplementing vitamin D will be very beneficial here. When vitamin D is produced in the body naturally via exposure to sunlight there's a huge amount of other things that occur as well, and we don't have a ton of good science to back up if curing a vitamin D deficiency via supplementation of pure vitamin D is rea…

In Finland we put Vitamin D in milk that’s sold on normal shops. And taking a supplement is heavily recommended. Though this is mostly because for 6 months of a year one simply cannot get it the natural way (too cold and sun is too low). And thanks to this we don’t have much deficiency, long time ago we used to have. Not saying it means it would help with covid. But the supplements definitely help with deficiency in…

You had a very limited coronavirus outbreak it seems. Does Norway have the same vitamin D supplementation policies? Their outbreak was similar in size to Finland’s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Finland

Edit: Interestingly, the source pdf notes the nordic countries have higher D3 levels than Mediterranean countries. And speculates this may help explain lower incidence up north.

————

The researchers around Petre Cristian Ilie have tested the number of Covid-19 deaths per 1 million inhabitants against the vitamin D level in 20 European countries and come to the following conclusion: The mean vitamin D level in the countries studied (mean 22.4 ng/ml, StDev ±4.24) correlates strictly with the number of Covid-19 infected per million population (mean 295.95, StDev ±298.73, p=0.004) and with mortality (mean 5.96, StDev 15.13, p<0.00001) The death rates in Spain and Italy are much higher than in Scandinavia. The researchers explain this with the statistically significant higher vitamin D level among the inhabitants of the Nordic countries: The study shows that in older people, the average blood vitamin D level in Spain is 10.4 ng/ml, in Italy, 11.2 ng/ml, while in the Scandinavian countries it is 18 ng/ml. The northerners obviously do have the better vitamin D levels, although the sun is not as intense there as in the south. This could either be because they are more active outdoors or because they get more vitamin D from food, e.g. fish, or both. Fat sea fish contains a lot of vitamin D. And southerners tend to spend their midday hours in the shade or indoors. Shadow, window glass and a longer way through the atmosphere (morning/evening, autumn/spring) reduce UVB radiation much more than UVA.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#44

Post by Jeriko »

James_Henry wrote: post #10
dirtyid wrote: post #7

Everyone should try a Vitamin D cycle if only to see if makes a big difference in daily life, especially if you live in area with sad winters. It's one of the few supplements that dramatically improves mood for those deficient or sensitive to large doses.

Vitamin D tests aren't usually too expensive (as far as medical tests go), so it might be worth just getting tested rather than trying to see what difference it is making (which can be tricky if you are someone sensitive to the placebo effect or if the effect of vitamin D supplementation isn't immediate or what not).

If you are trying to use it to treat mild depression specifically, a placebo effect is great! Placebo effects get a bad rap. If something improves your subjective quality of life that should be considered a win, especially for depression.

Honestly the best thing vitamin D has going for it is being super inexpensive and safe. Because of that you can supplement vitamin D for almost any reason and expect to see at worst a very small cost (someone up thread said 3 cents a day, which seems in the ball park) and at best a significant subjective benefit (even if it's from a placebo effect).

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#45

Post by justinator »

sharpneli wrote: post #18
ve55 wrote: post #2

Although this is a notable finding it's important to remember that it doesn't lead to the conclusion that supplementing vitamin D will be very beneficial here. When vitamin D is produced in the body naturally via exposure to sunlight there's a huge amount of other things that occur as well, and we don't have a ton of good science to back up if curing a vitamin D deficiency via supplementation of pure vitamin D is rea…

In Finland we put Vitamin D in milk that’s sold on normal shops. And taking a supplement is heavily recommended. Though this is mostly because for 6 months of a year one simply cannot get it the natural way (too cold and sun is too low). And thanks to this we don’t have much deficiency, long time ago we used to have. Not saying it means it would help with covid. But the supplements definitely help with deficiency in…

What's the amount of Vitamin D supplementation? This is common in the States, but I wonder if Norway is higher.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#46

Post by jcampbell1 »

dirtyid wrote: post #7

Everyone should try a Vitamin D cycle if only to see if makes a big difference in daily life, especially if you live in area with sad winters. It's one of the few supplements that dramatically improves mood for those deficient or sensitive to large doses.

After having several kitesurfing vacations ruined by sunburns, I decided to just go to a tanning salon in the winter. It had a profound mood effect and respiratory effect almost immediately. Now I go a few times per month in winter regardless if I am going to the tropics. The UV does is completely metered.

It may be a risky, but given that people that work outside have half the risk of melanoma as people who work indoors, I think regular low dose UV exposure may be a net positive even for cancer risk.

Spending 5 minutes under UV lamps is a guaranteed way to get a huge dose reasonably safely, and you will know the effect almost immediately. The vitamin D seems to be maintained for 2-3 weeks after as well.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#47

Post by AQuantized »

tekgnos wrote: post #15
et2o wrote: post #5

Vitamin D has been endlessly promoted as a treatment for many diseases due to evidence from observational studies, but hundreds of millions of dollars in randomized controlled trials have never demonstrated it to be effective for any disease except rickets. There was just a large trial published in JAMA [1] examining its effectiveness for depression given solid observational data. It was not at all effective. The rea…

This study used a tiny amount of Vitamin D (2,00IU/day) which is absolutely not enough Vitamin D to have any affect on someone who is deficient. Going outside in a swimsuit produces 10,000+IU equivalent. We evolved nude, outdoors. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3356951/

It's not a tiny amount, probably about 40% of what most adults should be getting optimally, and significantly better than having almost no intake, which is the case for a lot of people who rarely go outside and don't eat any fatty fish.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#48

Post by BurningCycles »

sharpneli wrote: post #18
ve55 wrote: post #2

Although this is a notable finding it's important to remember that it doesn't lead to the conclusion that supplementing vitamin D will be very beneficial here. When vitamin D is produced in the body naturally via exposure to sunlight there's a huge amount of other things that occur as well, and we don't have a ton of good science to back up if curing a vitamin D deficiency via supplementation of pure vitamin D is rea…

In Finland we put Vitamin D in milk that’s sold on normal shops. And taking a supplement is heavily recommended. Though this is mostly because for 6 months of a year one simply cannot get it the natural way (too cold and sun is too low). And thanks to this we don’t have much deficiency, long time ago we used to have. Not saying it means it would help with covid. But the supplements definitely help with deficiency in…

>In Finland we put Vitamin D in milk that’s sold on normal shops.

I'd wager it's the same in all the Nordic countries, at least it's the same here in Sweden.

A couple a months ago when I spoke to my dad, he told me he had a checkup because he had been unusually tired, turned out that the only thing the testing showed was that he had d-vitamin deficiency.

What surprised me is that he was given prescription d-vitamins, since you can buy them anywhere without prescription.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#49

Post by mnm1 »

et2o wrote: post #5

Vitamin D has been endlessly promoted as a treatment for many diseases due to evidence from observational studies, but hundreds of millions of dollars in randomized controlled trials have never demonstrated it to be effective for any disease except rickets. There was just a large trial published in JAMA [1] examining its effectiveness for depression given solid observational data. It was not at all effective. The rea…

Guaranteed that not a single study exists where they intentionally exposed people to a live virus (since it's unethical and horrific) so whatever studies you're referring to are completely irrelevant. If not, please link to a relevant study. Depression is not a virus.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#50

Post by throwanem »

ve55 wrote: post #26
graeme wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about this section of the pdf? From a 2016 study on patients with other respiratory diseases. —————- High dose vitamin D administration in ventilated intensive care unit patients: A pilot double blind randomized controlled trial In the study, patients with vitamin D deficiency ( https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221462371... —————— Ah, the pdf has a second such study. Mortality almost half less…

I haven't seen that one, that looks pretty impressive, especially for administering it in a single dose that is that large. That's definitely a good data point in favor that some of it is direct causation though.

31 total subjects, only 13 vitamin D deficient initially, p = 0.03. This study at best suggests further, more rigorous research here may be warranted. It says nothing about causation, for all that its authors seem to feel otherwise - and that they feel otherwise suggests its results should be taken with more than the usual amount of skepticism.
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