It still doesn't compare to a Kinesis Advantage 2 [1].
It’s concave!
ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard
41–50 of 282 posts
Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard
#42I highly recommend the kinesis freestyle edge keyboard which costs around $200 but has roughly all the same features besides the thumb module.
I also highly recommend a split keyboard in general: my shoulder issues are noticeably better when using them.
A split keyboard may not help with wrist pain. Personally I was able to get rid of any wrist pain by strengthening through climbing.
Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard
#43I like the idea of it, it's different enough from the standard design that it seems well thought out - but it's one of those keyboards/products I would love to be able to try for a while before committing myself to a purchase, to ensure I can get used to it and would enjoy typing on it. It'd be great to see some kinda local computer hardware/keyboard store open up for this purpose, but I guess it'd be too niche reall…
That's one of the reasons I said in mu post that I'm happy that split keyboards are getting more attention. Most of the people still don't know about them. If more people knew about the benefits they bring, problems they solve, they would be much more popular. That would bring the price down, increase the choices available, bring them closer to the users. So you could probably go to a local shop and test it. But they…
I think it would be better for the health of the population if split keyboards were less exclusive, along with different keyboard layouts like Colemak instead of most people being stuck on Qwerty which was designed to be awkward to slow down the typist to prevent typewriter jams.
Sure, it would be harder to tell who the early adopters are, in case it is any measure of skill or determination, but that's a trade-off I would be happy with - instead of being the odd ones out, we'd be pioneers setting the trend ;)
Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard
#44Unfortunatley, I believe it's a mistake to move away from the 1.5u outer column used by the ErgoDox, since the pinky is a less accurate finger and benefits from the extra key width. There isn't anything this does that the ErgoDox-EZ doesn't do, besides the adjustable thumb cluster and apparent build quality. I wouldn't call this a next-generation ergonomic keyboard unless it also had integrated pointing device option…
The main critique about the ErgoDox-EZ was always the thumb cluster. This one seems a bit better designed, but can't tell from the pics if they solved that particular issue - I suspect not. Agree about the pinky column, not an improvement.
I like the visuals of the ErgoDox-EZ the most, but still willing to wait for the new keyboard.io, whenever that one comes out.
Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Need to? It doesn't. Why might users care? Well, the kinds of people who are into custom keyboards often use custom firmware too... while this keyboard advertises QMK support, if I don't like QMK and want to use something else, which chips are inside matters. Making this even more concrete, I am in the market for some new keyboards, and at least one of them is one I'd like to write my own firmware for. Rust is far mo…
I think OP meant "Why does this keyboard need so much computing power". Most keyboards you can program use an AVR chip, which is more than enough, and you can also program that from Rust. The jump from that to this ARMv5 CPU is similar to that from this ARMv5 to an Intel Xeon. And sure enough, if someone were to build a keyboard with an Intel Xeon, you could also program that from Rust. But the question still remains…
So, this is 100% speculation, but....
Specifically, this has a STM32F303xC. Looks like (depending on quantity, of course), you're looking at $3 to $5. Their other well-known keyboard, the Ergodox EZ, uses an ATMEGA32U4-AU. It's also $3 or $4 on Mouser. I don't know what the actual BOM looks like in total, but it seems like this isn't significantly different in price? Especially at the likely volumes here?
I'm still new to this game, so maybe I'm missing something.
Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard
#46I've been getting deep into the home office ergonomics hole now that I'll be working from home indefinitely. There's a real danger here - I generally pride myself as someone who is conscientious of consumerist tendencies, but it's become clear that my drive for better ergonomics is no longer about the actual facilitation of work or avoidance of injury. I have spent more time researching ergonomic setups than could ev…
> Shoveling in expensive ergonomic equipment is little different from shoes or bags or guns or radios or funko pops. It is and it isn't. It depends if/when you stop. I just got $250 keyboard. My last one was also in that range. Though it lasted me around 10 years. I don't think its evil wanting to have nice things. Its problem when 'you life to buy things, not buy things to live.'
I have never spent more than 30 € on a keyboard and mouse combo, and that's over the span of the last 10 years...
I have never peeked over the price wall into the higher end stuff because it genuinely has never occurred to me that my current keyboard+mouse were hindering my productivity.
High contrast screen? Sure, squinting hurts. Office-cancelling headphones? Sure, loud noises ruin my concentration
But keyboard and mouse have never been am issue... When did you start to suspect that you needed to get a better keyboard?
Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's one of the reasons I said in mu post that I'm happy that split keyboards are getting more attention. Most of the people still don't know about them. If more people knew about the benefits they bring, problems they solve, they would be much more popular. That would bring the price down, increase the choices available, bring them closer to the users. So you could probably go to a local shop and test it. But they…
I think it would be better for the health of the population if split keyboards were less exclusive, along with different keyboard layouts like Colemak instead of most people being stuck on Qwerty which was designed to be awkward to slow down the typist to prevent typewriter jams. Sure, it would be harder to tell who the early adopters are, in case it is any measure of skill or determination, but that's a trade-off I…
I think it's coming. More and more people are having problems caused by the position used with standard keyboards. But it will take some time to educate everyone, starting with doctors who need to keep up with 'modern health issues' caused by using the computer whole day.
Let's be philosophical: A journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. We'll get there.
Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard
#48Neat! If you're interested in this kind of thing, I recommend also checking out the Kinesis Advantage.
The Kinesis Advantage is the gold standard here. Have been using Kinesis keyboards for many years.
Kinesis could of course have gone with an ortholinear layout but they didn't because the layout they chose much better maps to the actual geometry of the hand. Yes, it takes a few hours to learn to adapt, typically spread out over a couple days, but no that's not difficult and no it doesn't impact your ability to jump over to a normal keyboard.
100% stop to serious repetitive stress injury problems I had been experiencing with other keyboards, fully programmable layout, and a great high grade mechanical design that's lasted a decade or more without complaint.
Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard
#49Is there any science when it comes to ergonomy and tall keys? I would expect tall keys to be more damaging to wrists over time due to awkward position and longer travel time.
I learned that the proper way to type is with your hands floating above the keyboard, and resting your hands on a wrist rest when not typing. I don't always do it, but when I do, the height of the keyboard relative to the table becomes irrelevant, instead it's more about height of keys relative to my shoulders and maintaining right angled elbows. Also, to me the Moonlander keyboard and its keycaps do not seem particu…
Be careful using wrist rests. The pressure can cause the carpal tunnel on the underside of your wrist to compress, increasing the friction on the tendons running through the tunnel and exacerbating or causing carpal tunnel syndrome. It's much much better to train your muscles and posture to keep your wrists from resting on a surface while you type.
Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I use a wrist rest as well. It's hard to get a good wrist rest - they seem to last for a month or a year on amazon, and when I want to re-order, they are unavailable. I have a memory foam one about 3-4" deep and the width of the keyboard. It is soft enough, lifts and supports my wrists and keeps them warm. I think the wrist support on this moonlander keyboard is a good idea, but making it out of cold, hard plastic do…
I find gel wrist rest better. It has less give while still feeling soft to my wrists.
I used to use a gel wrist rest but the one I bought disappeared. I tried a plain foam one (glorious gaming), but it was too hard.