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On the Twitter Hack

schneier.com

41–50 of 93 posts

Re: On the Twitter Hack

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very typical of the libertarian streak that underpins HN. I'm always a little turned off by this strange dominate-the-world culture out of SV. I come from a culture that valued open source and interoperable open standards. Where did my people go? Twitter is clearly and objectively a monopoly or in a duopoly with Facebook/Instagram. At my most charitable, I could include YouTube in the mix. But I'd still say m…

Twitter's power comes fro being nearly integrated into main stream news. the danger therein has been seen with the platform used to shame those who put forth the wrong opinion, spin a story in a manner not acceptable, or associate with someone who has done the same. how this came about is hard to place but I would not doubt the executives at Twitter cultivated their position along with very adept targeting of celebri…

You seem to be making a few separate claims as if they are the same.

> Twitter's power comes fro being nearly integrated into main stream news.

You are using "integrated" (a word which has a specific meaning and is related to monopolies) in a way that doesn't apply here. News makers tend to use Twitter because it's a rapid-fire way for them to see what others in their cohort are talking about. They did the same thing before Twitter, but it was on slower news cycles (daily newspapers, evening TV news, etc).

> the danger therein has been seen with the platform used to shame those who put forth the wrong opinion

I'm completely fine with shaming. We need more of it. It's always been a part of how societies regulate the outliers (including species other than humans). Since 2016 we've seen what happens when a person exhibits no shame whatsoever in a society that had been established with lots of norms rather than laws to steer behavior.

I suspect you are talking about the actions that go beyond shaming (boycotts, calling for people to be fired, book publishers dropping books, forums dropping speeches, etc). I agree we shouldn't burn heretics or witches. But that shouldn't prevent us from applying some modicum of social penalty if the speech or actions warrant it.

> how this came about is hard to place

News makers already had incentives to watch each other's work. They "keep their finger on the pulse" of news. Twitter made this possible.

News makers have always tried to get a story to market first -- that's the incentive that capitalism provides.

I was contracting at a major regional newspaper when Michael Jackson died. For 4 hours, all news sources in the world were quoting a TMZ tweet because that was the only source. The other news outlets were now reporting a derivative of news -- that "TMZ has tweeted that X happened". For me, that's when Twitter became a significant cog in the news ecosystem.

We've also seen independent reporters in countries like Syria and Yemen get carried by international news outlets because there was no alternative. News is changing because the old way was inefficient and insufficient in some ways. Twitter exists. It's not the best app, but it's an app that is large enough at the right time.

> How do you split up...

And should we? And what are the consequences if we do?

Re: On the Twitter Hack

#42
post #24
post #6

> Companies like Facebook and Twitter have so much power because they are so large, and they face no real competition. I find it hard to take the rest of the article seriously when it's talking about Twitter as a giant monopoly that needs to be broken up... But also the argument seems fundamentally wrong. Account security is a prime example of a place where economies of scale bring a lot of benefit. I would absolutel…

The reason MSFT, GOOG, etc., have better security is because they have paying customers who have data to protect. So it behooves them to be proactive about security and to take it seriously.

I mean twitter has plenty of paying customers too? You don't just advertise on there for free.

Re: On the Twitter Hack

#43
post #38
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont see why the identity providers couldnt pass trust ratings between each other.

There's one element of the tragedy of the commons. Honest Bob's Social Media Emporium might not be entirely motivated to mark their users as untrusted, when most of the pain of the spam is felt by the other thousands of providers they federate with. "Hey, doing SMS verification of new accounts is expensive, but required by the other nodes on the network. How about we don't, but say we did?" Imagine a solution to emai…

Then " Bob's Social Media Emporium" as a whole would get dinged in the trust web. If you cant trust the verifier, you wouldnt trust any of their participants.

I guess nitpicking the details doesnt matter, but none of these problems seem insurmountable.

Re: On the Twitter Hack

#44
post #42
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason MSFT, GOOG, etc., have better security is because they have paying customers who have data to protect. So it behooves them to be proactive about security and to take it seriously.

I mean twitter has plenty of paying customers too? You don't just advertise on there for free.

Yeah 3.48 billion dollar's worth of paying customers at last count.

Re: On the Twitter Hack

#45
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly do you propose to split up Twitter? Split the userbase into 100 groups? Who goes in which group? And what happens when people want to switch groups... ultimately coalescing in a single node? Because, you know, network effects. I don't like Twitter either, so I don't use it. It's a really effective solution!

> I don't like Twitter either, so I don't use it. It's a really effective solution! Schneier's point is the threat of a malicious actor starting a war by hijacking a politician's Twitter is non-zero. People like you and me opting out of Twitter is not an effective solution to that.

If enough people opt, it is a solution. Like littering: if I throw one cigarette butt out the window, is that really an environmental hazard? No. If a hundred million people each throw 20 out the window a day, then you have a problem.

Re: On the Twitter Hack

#46
post #43
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one element of the tragedy of the commons. Honest Bob's Social Media Emporium might not be entirely motivated to mark their users as untrusted, when most of the pain of the spam is felt by the other thousands of providers they federate with. "Hey, doing SMS verification of new accounts is expensive, but required by the other nodes on the network. How about we don't, but say we did?" Imagine a solution to emai…

Then " Bob's Social Media Emporium" as a whole would get dinged in the trust web. If you cant trust the verifier, you wouldnt trust any of their participants. I guess nitpicking the details doesnt matter, but none of these problems seem insurmountable.

Oh, man. You dropped the "Honest" out of "Honest Bob". That's harsh, it's like you think he's some kind of a crook :(

Once the biggest node on this network starts not peering with smaller nodes due to them being untrustworthy, what do you think happens? I suspect that the users will move from the smaller nodes to the bigger ones. And then we're right back to where we started. People will be complaining about monopolies and will want the big nodes broken up.

Re: On the Twitter Hack

#48
post #6

> Companies like Facebook and Twitter have so much power because they are so large, and they face no real competition. I find it hard to take the rest of the article seriously when it's talking about Twitter as a giant monopoly that needs to be broken up... But also the argument seems fundamentally wrong. Account security is a prime example of a place where economies of scale bring a lot of benefit. I would absolutel…

As someone who has run two startups, their security can be completely bonkers. Not saying that all startups are like this but we had a database completely open to employees and would frequent watch them in real time for customer insights.

Re: On the Twitter Hack

#50
post #42
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason MSFT, GOOG, etc., have better security is because they have paying customers who have data to protect. So it behooves them to be proactive about security and to take it seriously.

I mean twitter has plenty of paying customers too? You don't just advertise on there for free.

But like, who’s storing their private budget spreadsheets or a database table with 1M credit card numbers on Twitter?
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