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When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.

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Re: When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.

#41

Post by ori_b »

orijing wrote: post #4

This puts developers in companies that commit to open source projects like Chromium to be at a significant advantage to those developing proprietary software. I understand where the author is coming from, but this is unfair for those who work on closed-source projects. Of course I have my own personal projects, but for most of them, I am not about release their source.

The hiring process isn't meant to be fair - it's meant to get the best results. A good way to see if someone can write good code is to look at the code they've written and to see if it's good.

If the ability to demonstrate that they can write good code with concrete examples puts someone at an advantage over others, so be it.

Re: When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.

#42

Post by frou_dh »

onan_barbarian wrote: post #38

Maybe this is paranoia, but I'm beginning to find a lot of threads like this (and a few yesterday about 'how to hire people') actively coercive: "Contribute to Open Source or Don't Get Hired". There are a lot of increasingly shrill remarks out there about how everyone should be doing open source projects in their 'spare time', so no-one has any excuse not to have a track record of FOSS contributions... frankly, it's…

If "endless side projects" is unreasonable, is "at least one" reasonable?

Re: When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.

#43

Post by onan_barbarian »

frou_dh wrote: post #42
onan_barbarian wrote: post #38

Maybe this is paranoia, but I'm beginning to find a lot of threads like this (and a few yesterday about 'how to hire people') actively coercive: "Contribute to Open Source or Don't Get Hired". There are a lot of increasingly shrill remarks out there about how everyone should be doing open source projects in their 'spare time', so no-one has any excuse not to have a track record of FOSS contributions... frankly, it's…

If "endless side projects" is unreasonable, is "at least one" reasonable?

No, it is not. For a side project to be remotely comparable to the efforts that, for example, we have put in, it would have to be quite a side project.

Calling attention to (say) a 250-line neat hack - say a patch to a driver, or solving some elegant toy problem - would constitute a detraction from the programmers' major contribution at work over the course of years.

I view this new fixation on open source contributions as a continuation of the pathological distrust for programmers' skilled contributions that used to be expressed through high-stakes (or even low-stages) white-board coding challenges. I'm not sure which is more irritating.

Re: When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.

#44

Post by akronim »

qeorge wrote: post #33
orijing wrote: post #4

This puts developers in companies that commit to open source projects like Chromium to be at a significant advantage to those developing proprietary software. I understand where the author is coming from, but this is unfair for those who work on closed-source projects. Of course I have my own personal projects, but for most of them, I am not about release their source.

Unfair how? Anyone can participate in open source. Those who do deserve the benefits that come with it (of which visibility is one of the most obvious).

Anyone can participate in open source. That's not correct - plenty of employment contracts lay claim to any contributions, which means the projects can't accept them.

Re: When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.

#45

Post by dpritchett »

JasonPunyon wrote: post #32
eddanger wrote: post #3

This is an interesting approach but not all talented developers partake in open source projects.

This is true and thanks for the feedback. Do you (or anyone else reading) have any ideas for things that all talented developers would want to list on their profiles that we don't have on Careers yet? Thanks again!

While filling out my profile it struck me that I'd love a friend finding service: Find me programmers within 50 miles of my stated location who share interests and experiences in some of the many tags I chose for myself. I'd like to meet them and have a beer.

Re: When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.

#46

Post by epochwolf »

onan_barbarian wrote: post #38

Maybe this is paranoia, but I'm beginning to find a lot of threads like this (and a few yesterday about 'how to hire people') actively coercive: "Contribute to Open Source or Don't Get Hired". There are a lot of increasingly shrill remarks out there about how everyone should be doing open source projects in their 'spare time', so no-one has any excuse not to have a track record of FOSS contributions... frankly, it's…

Even if you manage to maintain a side project, there are plenty of valid reasons (legal and not) to not release the code in public view.

Re: When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.

#47

Post by lbrandy »

onan_barbarian wrote: post #38

Maybe this is paranoia, but I'm beginning to find a lot of threads like this (and a few yesterday about 'how to hire people') actively coercive: "Contribute to Open Source or Don't Get Hired". There are a lot of increasingly shrill remarks out there about how everyone should be doing open source projects in their 'spare time', so no-one has any excuse not to have a track record of FOSS contributions... frankly, it's…

This is one of those posts that is made, and upvoted, based on what everyone wants to be true, instead of what is true.

The simple, unassailable truth is that having strong contributions to open-source projects is a massive advantage in any resume-scanning and hiring situation. And as a hiring manager, seeing extensive open-source work is better than seeing a resume. That means the advice is ALWAYS good advice. There is never a situation under which the proper career advice is to not do good visible work.

This doesn't mean it's a requirement, or should be a requirement, but it IS a reality. If you choose not to participate, that's fine, but it comes with an inarguable cost. You can try to convince us all that it shouldn't, but it does, and it probably always will.

Re: When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.

#48

Post by julioody »

onan_barbarian wrote: post #38

Maybe this is paranoia, but I'm beginning to find a lot of threads like this (and a few yesterday about 'how to hire people') actively coercive: "Contribute to Open Source or Don't Get Hired". There are a lot of increasingly shrill remarks out there about how everyone should be doing open source projects in their 'spare time', so no-one has any excuse not to have a track record of FOSS contributions... frankly, it's…

Understand though that, while your points are valid, it it's certainly more valuable to an employer to be able to see your skills in action than not.

At the same time, seeing how you handle version control, how you deal with contributors and bug reports, all that matters. Being able to see that is much better than taking one's word for it.

So yes, as someone who previously worked on a shop where no code would get out, I can relate to the feeling. But the above is still true. A few things you can do about it:

- open not the products you have entirely, but modular parts of it. - should the previous suggestion not be an option, get the company to run a blog, and have you/your workmates share solutions at a discussion level. - get the company to allow developers to work 10%, or 20% of their time, on open source. It'll help keeping you guys sharp, at the same time it helps you putting a name out there.

Re: When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.

#49

Post by bphogan »

akronim wrote: post #44
qeorge wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfair how? Anyone can participate in open source. Those who do deserve the benefits that come with it (of which visibility is one of the most obvious).

Anyone can participate in open source. That's not correct - plenty of employment contracts lay claim to any contributions, which means the projects can't accept them.

But it is. Anyone can participate. It's a choice, just like the choice to sign the employment contract.

Re: When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.

#50

Post by frederickcook »

onan_barbarian wrote: post #38

Maybe this is paranoia, but I'm beginning to find a lot of threads like this (and a few yesterday about 'how to hire people') actively coercive: "Contribute to Open Source or Don't Get Hired". There are a lot of increasingly shrill remarks out there about how everyone should be doing open source projects in their 'spare time', so no-one has any excuse not to have a track record of FOSS contributions... frankly, it's…

For a shop whose pre-requisite to hiring a developer is that they have code publicly available, you can bet cultural fit is the other thing at the top of their checklist.

Saying "no one wants to go home and write a big fucking pile of code" probably means that regardless of technical aptitude, you wouldn't fit in well with the kind of folks who love and encourage doing just that in their spare time. Most of the developers on our team have and love "endless side projects."

Not bullshit, just different.

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