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ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

ice.gov

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Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#41
post #30

I don’t understand how universities think they can get away with charging full tuition to students while offering online only classes. I would be so furious if I was stuck in this situation of trying to graduate on time but being scammed out of the whole experience I worked so hard to get in to. If the schools feel so strongly against reopening they should waive their tuition for anyone already enrolled to attend onl…

> I don’t blame ICE for not extending their exemption past the summer for online classes.

1. difficulty of returning home 2. risk of pandemic spread by returning home 3. internet connectivity issues 4. timezone issues 5. software availability issues 6. home suitability for studying 7. ....

"I don't blame ICE". Destroy ICE. This is appalling.

When I became a citizen 3 years ago, I told people that one motivation was that I was very very slightly afraid of Trump even though I was a white european permanent resident of 28 years. It's only taken 3 years to get to where I'd say "not imminently but genuinely afraid" for that sort of immigration status.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#42
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only possible good thing I can see from a US student perspective is that it's now more reasonable to go to grad school in US. Many programs in STEM have gotten out of hand with the number of the foreign graduate students--in some programs the number is over 80% [1]. I think this has led to the US educating many persons who later leave the country for visa issues. Also, some of the competition to get in can be conside…

> I think this has led to the US educating many persons who later leave the country for visa issues I’ve never been to the US but, if this is the problem then wouldn’t it be better to make it easier for people to stay also after they have finished their degrees? If the goal is to have a lot of highly educated people in the US I mean.

USA educates more international students (by far) than any other country. I think the goal of policies like this is to prefer US students. But you're right that it would also be nice if foreign students had an easier time staying in USA after they graduate.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#43
> Nonimmigrant F-1 and M-1 students attending schools operating entirely online may not take a full online course load and remain in the United States ... Active students currently in the United States enrolled in such programs must depart the country or take other measures ...

This is going to ruin so many lives. An example of how this could result is significant hardship for international students is the case of Iranian students.

Iran has mandatory military service for all male citizens ages 18 and over. People who are students can defer their military service until their studies have concluded. If the studies are outside of Iran, the temporary exemption from military service for the purpose of education status allows students to be present in Iran for a maximum of 3 months per year (approximate length of the summer intermission, so students can have some vacation and visit their family). Stays longer than that are deemed to be at odds with being an active student in a foreign institution, so if a student is present in Iran for longer than that, they are deemed to no longer be a student—the exemption is invalidated and the person has to go through two years of military service before they are allowed to leave the country again.

Any male Iranian student who is forced to leave the US due to this directive is effectively expelled from their program. I am sure this is not a unique situation. There are likely many other such edge cases that affect certain demographics of students. I hope they reverse their decision, otherwise so many careers will end before they even begin.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#44
post #13

Such pathetic leadership. International students already in the country must now either attend an in person class and risk their lives, or fly out from the country with the highest number of infections and spread it to their friends and family at home. Not to mention the loss to the research community. I can’t see anything that is to be gained from this, other than pandering to a xenophobic voter base.

Are any universities even offering in person classes? I doubt it. This seems designed/intended to chase away immigrants.

Many universities are planning to have at least some of their classes be in-person this fall. My daughter was just admitted to Seattle U, and they expect her to be moving into her dorm in about a month. I am mostly expecting this to be cancelled, though.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#45

This is lunacy. Also likely will fail in court since it doesn’t follow proper procedures - something the recent Supreme Court DACA ruling pointed out. These nitwits are cruel and incompetent. But all of this has damaged America’s higher education system and its attractiveness to foreign students for the long term. Many an economics PhD thesis will model GDP lost from doing everything in our power to scare away educat…

> These nitwits are cruel and incompetent.

This is why I'm afraid of Pence getting President in the event Trump catches corona or has a heart attack or whatever. Or for whatever the Republicans put up after Trump. Because right now the only thing that keeps this administration from doing massive unrepairable damage is their own incompetence because Trump took a bunch of yes men as his advisors and Cabinet.

A government filled by someone with the malice of the current Republicans and the competence of actual professionals? Good night democracy.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#46
Look, I know HN discussions try to keep things respectful, try to prevent flamewars, etc. but I say it's damn hard not to scream out loud "Fuck our current president" with BS like this.

This is quite simply racist xenophobic pandering to his "base". International students don't have any control over whether a school is open in person or online, so why punish them like this. It's just evil.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#47
post #30

I don’t understand how universities think they can get away with charging full tuition to students while offering online only classes. I would be so furious if I was stuck in this situation of trying to graduate on time but being scammed out of the whole experience I worked so hard to get in to. If the schools feel so strongly against reopening they should waive their tuition for anyone already enrolled to attend onl…

> I don’t blame ICE for not extending their exemption past the summer for online classes. 1. difficulty of returning home 2. risk of pandemic spread by returning home 3. internet connectivity issues 4. timezone issues 5. software availability issues 6. home suitability for studying 7. .... "I don't blame ICE". Destroy ICE. This is appalling. When I became a citizen 3 years ago, I told people that one motivation was t…

The schools really should have thought through of all this before canceling classes on all their students who depend so much on attending them.

There’s no excuse for outright canceling classes. Classes can absolutely be held safely, if these universities simply chose to invest in the training, procedures, and equipment necessary to do so.

Instead they chose to bank their tuition payments and setup a Zoom call.

This is not a new policy, student visas have never allowed for online classes, and the universities certainly knew this. I think the blame pretty clearly lies with schools who decided to close up shop.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#48
post #13

Such pathetic leadership. International students already in the country must now either attend an in person class and risk their lives, or fly out from the country with the highest number of infections and spread it to their friends and family at home. Not to mention the loss to the research community. I can’t see anything that is to be gained from this, other than pandering to a xenophobic voter base.

> or fly out from the country with the highest number of infections Are there exemptions in place for when it is difficult to actually return to country of origin? (e.g. it remains very difficult to fly into China)

It's difficult, if not impossible, to fly to basically any country from the US.

The EU is currently debating exemptions for spouses who have been separated, so I doubt they have exemptions for students.

And even if the exemptions and all are sorted out, who thinks it's a great idea for a whole bunch of students to have to fly in what will now potentially be crowded planes, and then have to spend at least a couple of weeks in quarantine, for something that was not a choice of theirs at all.

Also, as if the rental/retail market wasn't bad enough, especially in college towns many of which are single industry towns, this is gonna add to even more completely unnecessary and avoidable hardship.

This is disastrous policy in every form, other than if youre someone who gets off on unnecessary cruelty.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#49
>Nonimmigrant F-1 students attending schools operating under normal in-person classes are bound by existing federal regulations. Eligible F students may take a maximum of one class or three credit hours online.

This pretty nuts. From what I understand, even schools that are allowing everyone on campus will have a majority of their classes online or have them be up to the discretion of professors.

This may keep the vast majority of international students out of the US.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#50
post #7

This is intended to punish foreign students - either move to an unsafe university or get out and reset your visa. With a government that’s decided to block visa applications arbitrarily. Alternatively universities have to reopen to people so that it looks like they agree with the absurd demands of the current administration to open earlier than they should.

And this is how you piss off a bunch of 18-23 year olds who may have had foreign friends impacted by this. Maybe this gets the youth vote out?

Do you think they're not already pissed?
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