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There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

de.ifixit.com

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Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#41

Post by rowanG077 »

princekolt wrote: post #13
fsflover wrote: post #4

I hope it will finally force Apple to become more climate-friendly. Their scores in phone repairability are disappointigly low: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability .

Every android phone in that page has a score lower or equal to all the iPhones. This has to be a joke, right? Example: Galaxy S20 Ultra [3/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S20+Ultra+Tea... iPhone 11 Pro Max [6/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+11+Pro+Max+Teardown/1... But sure, lets keep bashing Apple because that gives us all the internet kudos, am I right?

What? Why bring Android into this completely out of nowhere.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#42

Post by raverbashing »

nolok wrote: post #23
switch007 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. I don't know (talking as fairly pro-EU kind of person). I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C and vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt. But the EU are only partly to blame. Companies are relentless in their pursuit of cutting production costs. Going "green" ju…

> I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C I will be honest with you this one I just don't understand. My washing machine is A+ in EU norms and it heats properly. Maybe you bought a not so good model ? If anything those norms should be re-evaluated with new tougher levels now, you have to go out of your way to buy something that's not at least A (which is good and it means it worked, but also that it…

I bought a "cheap" vacuum (think UK brand but German OEM - apparently) and it cleans quite well

Yes, the suction power goes down as the bag fills, but I guess that's what bags are for.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#43

Post by rini17 »

StavrosK wrote: post #37
_ph_ wrote: post #24

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundre…

> Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume I'm not sure what the point here is, a CPU contains 50 billion parts in a tiny volume, it's impossible to fix things this small if they break. If a capacitor or resistor burns, you can probably open up your PC, look at the motherboard, find the faulty comp…

Maybe the watch analogy isn't the best one. But you are probably aware that the display, battery and storage break down more often than CPU? And that noone is proposing to replace individual bad transistors or pixels, but these parts which are manufactured separately and don't have to be glued together.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#45

Post by StavrosK »

rini17 wrote: post #43
StavrosK wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume I'm not sure what the point here is, a CPU contains 50 billion parts in a tiny volume, it's impossible to fix things this small if they break. If a capacitor or resistor burns, you can probably open up your PC, look at the motherboard, find the faulty comp…

Maybe the watch analogy isn't the best one. But you are probably aware that the display, battery and storage break down more often than CPU? And that noone is proposing to replace individual bad transistors or pixels, but these parts which are manufactured separately and don't have to be glued together.

I was arguing specifically that comparing tech products to mechanical wristwatches is a bit ridiculous. Obviously tech products could be much more repairable than they are.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#46

Post by switch007 »

open-source-ux wrote: post #40
switch007 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. I don't know (talking as fairly pro-EU kind of person). I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C and vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt. But the EU are only partly to blame. Companies are relentless in their pursuit of cutting production costs. Going "green" ju…

"I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C" Modern front-loading washing machines still heat to 90°C. What's changed is that modern washing machines use less water than older models. This is one of those dilemmas with older appliances: the older appliance is in perfect working condition, but uses much more water per wash (or more electricity). Do you keep the older appliance? Or buy a modern model tha…

> Modern front-loading washing machines still heat to 90°C

I've read reports to the contrary (when researching current machine). A machine having a 90C cycle does not mean it heats to 90C, and for a decent amount of time.

Yes, they use less water. Which means I often do an extra rinse cycle at the end. ("Use less detergent", well, I like clean clothes)

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#47

Post by bzzzt »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #33
_ph_ wrote: post #24

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundre…

Apple seems to be one of the worst offenders in terms of repairability of their devices. You can watch e.g. Louis Rossmann's videos on Youtube, he goes into great detail on how Apple tries to make it impossible for anyone except themselves to service their laptops, even going as far as to restrict market suppliers from selling specific microchips (that were not invented by Apple) to anyone but Apple. I imagine this w…

About the soldering part: memory prices don't plummet as hard as in 2005 anymore, so when you need more RAM, just buy it. By soldering it you also make it more robust. Most DIMM troubleshooting begins with 'reseat the modules'. And users won't place cheap modules which will cause issues and give your products a bad name.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#48

Post by raverbashing »

princekolt wrote: post #13
fsflover wrote: post #4

I hope it will finally force Apple to become more climate-friendly. Their scores in phone repairability are disappointigly low: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability .

Every android phone in that page has a score lower or equal to all the iPhones. This has to be a joke, right? Example: Galaxy S20 Ultra [3/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S20+Ultra+Tea... iPhone 11 Pro Max [6/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+11+Pro+Max+Teardown/1... But sure, lets keep bashing Apple because that gives us all the internet kudos, am I right?

The scores should correlate but my main worry would be the battery replacements

From that description it does seem that Apple worries about it:

> Critical display and battery repairs remain a priority in the iPhone's design.

I've seen Android phones where the replacement is simple and others where you have to take the whole phone apart to take the battery out

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#49

Post by jnxx »

switch007 wrote: post #15
apexalpha wrote: post #10

Let's hope this catches on just like the energy labels did. After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. Many other countries follow EU regulations directly or indirectly so let's hope for some easily repairable products in the future!

> After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. I don't know (talking as fairly pro-EU kind of person). I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C and vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt. But the EU are only partly to blame. Companies are relentless in their pursuit of cutting production costs. Going "green" ju…

> I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C

Washing machines sold in the EU can (we have one in the basement). But heating to 90°C is extremely inefficient if 60°C is sufficient, and it is in most cases (we are not any more using just soap for laundry like in the 19th century). In fact, recommended temperatures have fallen so much that it is now recommended to wash with 60°C once in a while to prevent mould and smell. And more and more clothes such as shirts and tresses, but even socks, have a washing temperature of 40°C recommended.

The wider issue is that energy conservation will not come by itself. Self-regulation will not give the speed of change that we need. With self-regulation alone, Americans would still use leaded gasoline which was obsolete in the 1960ies.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#50

Post by knolax »

_ph_ wrote: post #24

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundre…

The amount of infrastructure and equipment needed to create a watch from raw materials is an order of magnitude less than any piece of modern electronics. A single chip fab probably needs as much physical capital as an entire 1850s Swiss town needed to make a watch from scratch.
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