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Europeans vow to pursue digital tax plans after US “provocation”

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Re: Europeans vow to pursue digital tax plans after US “provocation”

#41

Post by noir-york »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #39
noir-york wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because China is threatening the global order on which peace and prosperity lies, starting with the freedom of the seas. China is already harassing and sinking fishing vessels and trying to close the South China Sea. It may soon try to enforce an ADIZ over the SC Sea as well. Not great. China is a growing aggressive power with cyber attacks across a multitude of countries and is running, like Russia, disinformation c…

We all know this, but Europe has no trust in the US under Trump. How can you not see that they are waiting till trust re-appears. 1 example: If Europe would really partner up, Trump would require Russia to be in the table ( G7). The current situation is nuts and it's not Europe's fault. Ps. Trump has no interest in peace and prosperity. Haven't you been paying attention? The US has never been this divided and the cur…

> How can you not see that they are waiting till trust re-appears.

The EU cannot afford to wait that long. China isn't taking a pause on its aggression. Indeed, its exploiting the US under Trump, Covid, etc to move aggressively now.

> The current situation is nuts and it's not Europe's fault.

"fault"? It doesn't have to be your fault if the mess still ends on your lap. And Europe (and I'm a European) being neighbours with Eurasia doesnt have the luxury of huge oceans separating it from revanchist powers.

Re: Europeans vow to pursue digital tax plans after US “provocation”

#42

Post by NicoJuicy »

noir-york wrote: post #41
NicoJuicy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know this, but Europe has no trust in the US under Trump. How can you not see that they are waiting till trust re-appears. 1 example: If Europe would really partner up, Trump would require Russia to be in the table ( G7). The current situation is nuts and it's not Europe's fault. Ps. Trump has no interest in peace and prosperity. Haven't you been paying attention? The US has never been this divided and the cur…

> How can you not see that they are waiting till trust re-appears. The EU cannot afford to wait that long. China isn't taking a pause on its aggression. Indeed, its exploiting the US under Trump, Covid, etc to move aggressively now. > The current situation is nuts and it's not Europe's fault. "fault"? It doesn't have to be your fault if the mess still ends on your lap. And Europe (and I'm a European) being neighbours…

I'm European too.

The thing about democracy is, it's a slow process.

Currently the best thing is to wait till November and China knows that.

They are exploiting the situation, but in contrast. I think the "one road, one belt" will fail if they continue their exploitive behaviour.

Taiwan is not an easy topic right now, because it's a bit too early. Since Western democracy under Trump is not United :(

As soon as we can, harder measures should be employed.

Re: Europeans vow to pursue digital tax plans after US “provocation”

#43

Post by noir-york »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #39
noir-york wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because China is threatening the global order on which peace and prosperity lies, starting with the freedom of the seas. China is already harassing and sinking fishing vessels and trying to close the South China Sea. It may soon try to enforce an ADIZ over the SC Sea as well. Not great. China is a growing aggressive power with cyber attacks across a multitude of countries and is running, like Russia, disinformation c…

We all know this, but Europe has no trust in the US under Trump. How can you not see that they are waiting till trust re-appears. 1 example: If Europe would really partner up, Trump would require Russia to be in the table ( G7). The current situation is nuts and it's not Europe's fault. Ps. Trump has no interest in peace and prosperity. Haven't you been paying attention? The US has never been this divided and the cur…

> Ps. Trump has no interest in peace and prosperity. Haven't you been paying attention? The US has never been this divided and the current leader thinks tweeting is more important.

Trump's only interest is re-election.

The US govt is a huge entity with may players of which the president is one, albeit an important one. The US military, State, academia and other institutions are all actors and they do have an interest in peace and prosperity.

Presidents come and go, but institutions remain and it is important that the relevant institutions adopt a common posture towards China.

Re: Europeans vow to pursue digital tax plans after US “provocation”

#44

Post by jka »

LatteLazy wrote: post #12

I find the fact talks fell through particularly concerning as right now we should all be presenting a united front against China. I also think they should call this a digital tax or apply it only to digital services. I understand that’s where the biggest impact will be felt but a minimum corporation tax rate shouldn’t depend on business type and I dislike the idea people are free to target companies for being “too su…

To follow on from your mention of China, it seems like TikTok could provide instructive discussion questions here.

Does the U.S. and silicon valley want to continue to manoeuvre and lobby to exempt tech companies from tax dues on revenues generated from digital attention and data gathered from users overseas?

And if so, does TikTok have to pay tax dues in return for similar revenues generated from U.S. user data?

The short-term balance sheet benefit to tech companies from avoiding overseas taxes seems understandable, but the longer-term implications of setting a precedent like that on an international stage seem less clear to me.

Re: Europeans vow to pursue digital tax plans after US “provocation”

#45

Post by Mirioron »

laser wrote: post #18

From a purely national interest standpoint, it's hardly surprising the US would be uninterested in negotiations given the fact it's the global digital products leader. While it's certainly true some such rules are worthwhile at the minimum tax level to stop global mega-corps avoiding taxes, like the old Double Irish loophole [1], the negotiations didn't break down over such provision, as the article mentions. The neg…

The worst part about taxes like this is that they make it even harder for Europe to ever catch up. Taxes like this will make Europe a less attractive location for a business like that. Investors will be less likely to invest, there's a greater regulatory burden for anyone who does want to start the business, and you will and up paying more in taxes.

Re: Europeans vow to pursue digital tax plans after US “provocation”

#46

Post by 082349872349872 »

redis_mlc wrote: post #21
NicoJuicy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point. Because of Trump, US allies have to guard more corners than before. It's a serious problem and I think Trump is actually giving Russia/China an unfair advantage. He has already destroyed the Asian partnerships against China that Obama started, he also got out of numerous Western partnerships because it wasn't his signature on it. I would say that the problem is not Europe, it's 100% Trump.…

This is not well-understood by the general public, but Trump's power as a statesman is his unpredictability. If you don't know what or where he will be next, how do you counter him? Reagan kept the Soviet Union off balance to the point of dissolving it. He's considered one of America's greatest statesman today, but called a clown by the elites at the time. The CCP should be concerned about the same fate if they trifl…

Trump's power as a statesman is that he doesn't feel the need to ride a horse.

    Starace rode a horse.
    Reagan rode a horse.
    Putin rode a horse.
    Le Pen rode a horse.
    Kim rode a horse.
    Kadyrov rode a horse.
    Johnson sat on a horse.
    Bolsonaro rode a horse.
Do you ever see Trump on a horse? No, that's unpredictability for you. He doesn't need to do what the cool kids do. He's a leader, not a follower.

Re: Europeans vow to pursue digital tax plans after US “provocation”

#47

Post by rrtthu »

laser wrote: post #18

From a purely national interest standpoint, it's hardly surprising the US would be uninterested in negotiations given the fact it's the global digital products leader. While it's certainly true some such rules are worthwhile at the minimum tax level to stop global mega-corps avoiding taxes, like the old Double Irish loophole [1], the negotiations didn't break down over such provision, as the article mentions. The neg…

The logic of the tax is "a product consumed on a territory is subject to tax in said territory". Saying this is akin to an import tax is like saying the VAT is an import tax.

Re: Europeans vow to pursue digital tax plans after US “provocation”

#48

Post by noir-york »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #42
noir-york wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can you not see that they are waiting till trust re-appears. The EU cannot afford to wait that long. China isn't taking a pause on its aggression. Indeed, its exploiting the US under Trump, Covid, etc to move aggressively now. > The current situation is nuts and it's not Europe's fault. "fault"? It doesn't have to be your fault if the mess still ends on your lap. And Europe (and I'm a European) being neighbours…

I'm European too. The thing about democracy is, it's a slow process. Currently the best thing is to wait till November and China knows that. They are exploiting the situation, but in contrast. I think the "one road, one belt" will fail if they continue their exploitive behaviour. Taiwan is not an easy topic right now, because it's a bit too early. Since Western democracy under Trump is not United :( As soon as we can…

Trump is a moron - threatening to withdraw US troops out of Germany is a gift to Russia.

But the EU cannot wait for Trump to go away because if he wins reelection that could be 5 years away. We don't have that time. The EU needs to work with what its got - work with India, Australia, PacRim countries.

The problem is that the EU is itself split with different interests. Someone has to provide leadership. The US president is the natural option but Trump has not stepped up. Someone else needs to - it cannot be Merkel as she's stepping down soon, but we urgently need leadership on the issue.

Re: Europeans vow to pursue digital tax plans after US “provocation”

#49

Post by Mirioron »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #39
noir-york wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because China is threatening the global order on which peace and prosperity lies, starting with the freedom of the seas. China is already harassing and sinking fishing vessels and trying to close the South China Sea. It may soon try to enforce an ADIZ over the SC Sea as well. Not great. China is a growing aggressive power with cyber attacks across a multitude of countries and is running, like Russia, disinformation c…

We all know this, but Europe has no trust in the US under Trump. How can you not see that they are waiting till trust re-appears. 1 example: If Europe would really partner up, Trump would require Russia to be in the table ( G7). The current situation is nuts and it's not Europe's fault. Ps. Trump has no interest in peace and prosperity. Haven't you been paying attention? The US has never been this divided and the cur…

How is it not Europe's fault? When it comes to digital businesses it's almost entirely Europe's fault. It's European countries that have been trying left and right to somehow squeeze more money out of largely American digital businesses. From the new digital taxes in France and Italy to the Google News row in Germany and Spain. This stuff started by Europe way before Trump ever entered the picture.

Re: Europeans vow to pursue digital tax plans after US “provocation”

#50

Post by LatteLazy »

fxtentacle wrote: post #31
LatteLazy wrote: post #12

I find the fact talks fell through particularly concerning as right now we should all be presenting a united front against China. I also think they should call this a digital tax or apply it only to digital services. I understand that’s where the biggest impact will be felt but a minimum corporation tax rate shouldn’t depend on business type and I dislike the idea people are free to target companies for being “too su…

I don't get your point. The talks are mainly about an additional 5% in taxes on the European profits of Facebook, Google, Apple, Netflix, or Amazon. How does a small tax increase for highly profitable companies get into the way of standing together against China?

I'm just lamenting that we have huge mutual interests and can't get over a 5% tax difference.
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