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Anxiety in product development

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Re: Anxiety in product development

#41

Post by karatestomp »

codr7 wrote: post #34

I've spent around 34 years writing code so far. My last project was an online order system for a lunch restaurant. To get an idea what kind of problems they're dealing with, I started by working two weeks in the restaurant. To my surprise I found that I actually enjoy delivering food more than writing code. As long as the customers get the food they ordered delivered in time, everyone is happy. And once I'm done, I'm…

I find I like lots of "menial" work a lot better than programming. As long as it didn't wreck my body (I like doing construction labor but it'll destroy you) I'd much, much rather do that than programming. Food delivery seems like it'd be great, bonus if it's bike delivery. Clerking at a small non-chain retail business would probably be a great time (if the owners weren't dicks—always an important qualifier with these sorts of jobs).

But, money and easy to find a job.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#42

Post by onemoresoop »

gtm1260 wrote: post #12

As a new developer, I think I fall into this trap a lot! I always don't want to touch other people's methods or introduce bugs, so I only make tiny, tiny little changes before thoroughly testing everything. It really slows me down.

You should be slow with other people's code. I bet that if you work on something solo you'd be much faster and that is because you're intimate with the code, you know what could go wrong, where, etc..

Second, the slowness comes from the fact it takes a lot more time to read and understand code that to write it, let alone trust that it is doing what is doing correctly. If you don't introduce bugs and are very careful you won't have nightmarish surprises. Keep up.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#43

Post by sebringj »

The good bit I get out of this is to provide value but in a way that isn't making you into a commodity. A way I do that is have some area of the business that I know very well that someone cannot just know with skills alone and then have some set of ownership of code that I created around this. Then repeat that in other areas to increase that value etc. You can also think of it as entrenchment...meaning if you don't know the point of what you are doing and don't have ideas on the roadmap and improvements etc., you probably are less important and can be replaced without much issue.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#44

Post by AtHeartEngineer »

cambalache wrote: post #31
hateful wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always loved that (also, sans theological content). It's good advice for anyone. It's strong statement because in one sentence it can give someone something that a lot of people may not have - self awareness in the face of anxiety.

I love it too, but let's be honest, the devil is in the details, I think most people agonize because they dont really know if their problem can or cannot be solved with more action from them. I for sure accept the things I really know I cannot change, and work in those I clearly know are under my control. The anxiety comes from those things I am lost in the sense I dont know if I should push more or I should give up.

My next tattoo is representing "the devil is in the details".

I've had so many discussions with people over the years where someone will say "why doesn't X company/government just do Y". Well, because it's very rarely that easy. Just use black magic, that'll solve all our problems right?

Re: Anxiety in product development

#45

Post by gazelle21 »

codr7 wrote: post #34

I've spent around 34 years writing code so far. My last project was an online order system for a lunch restaurant. To get an idea what kind of problems they're dealing with, I started by working two weeks in the restaurant. To my surprise I found that I actually enjoy delivering food more than writing code. As long as the customers get the food they ordered delivered in time, everyone is happy. And once I'm done, I'm…

Im on the opposite side. I worked at a restaurant for 12 years and it was the worst time of my life. I would constantly get called into work at 3 am due to random people not showing up. Inventory, dealing with 20+ people who don't care about the job. Terrible customers, and horrible people really left my bitter. To top it all off I was stresseed out of my mind and broke. Im a dev now and its deff stressful but doesn't compare to my days in a restaurant,plus I have some money now.Guess the grass is always greener

Re: Anxiety in product development

#46

Post by nautilus12 »

thorin wrote: post #32
nautilus12 wrote: post #22

Its a little known secret that managers deliberately promote anxiety driven development because it keeps workers at "peak productivity". A couple of the major things i've seen companies do in the past over and over again to myself and to others I worked with: 1. Ambiguous or no deadlines, frequent check ins, "crunches" when their deliberately poor planning doens't work, keeping an air of uncertainty around everything…

1. They don't keep an air of uncertainty on purpose most of the time, generally it's because a lot of businesses are uncertain and a lot of the time product/project managers don't have a good idea of what's going on! 2. Again this could be incompetence rather than cunning 3. Most great bosses and a lot of rubbish ones aren't great with positive feedback. Have you read Steve Job's biographies or Shoe Dog? Not much pra…

No I actually agree with you on all these points, Hanlon's razor applies to all of these which is why I made the last statement. However, I DO think there are managers and I've certainly run across them, that deliberately push on all these natural stressors to try to juice productivity.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#47

Post by neutronicus »

danielbarla wrote: post #40
neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

I also appreciate this quote, because it sets up a mature way of looking at things, categorising, and dealing with them. However, I'm less of a fan of the opening words; it's not so much that this should be magically granted on to us with a wishing wand, it's something we need to consciously work on, from within. Somehow that slogging, gritty aspect is less represented.

IMO your point is implicit in the Christian cultural context.

You don't say "God grant..." before sure bets; it's implicit that there's some risk of failure and you're gonna need to meet the Big Man halfway.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#48

Post by kulig »

thorin wrote: post #32
nautilus12 wrote: post #22

Its a little known secret that managers deliberately promote anxiety driven development because it keeps workers at "peak productivity". A couple of the major things i've seen companies do in the past over and over again to myself and to others I worked with: 1. Ambiguous or no deadlines, frequent check ins, "crunches" when their deliberately poor planning doens't work, keeping an air of uncertainty around everything…

1. They don't keep an air of uncertainty on purpose most of the time, generally it's because a lot of businesses are uncertain and a lot of the time product/project managers don't have a good idea of what's going on! 2. Again this could be incompetence rather than cunning 3. Most great bosses and a lot of rubbish ones aren't great with positive feedback. Have you read Steve Job's biographies or Shoe Dog? Not much pra…

Are you implying steve jobs was a great boss? He was an insane narcissist.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#49

Post by neutronicus »

AtHeartEngineer wrote: post #44
cambalache wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love it too, but let's be honest, the devil is in the details, I think most people agonize because they dont really know if their problem can or cannot be solved with more action from them. I for sure accept the things I really know I cannot change, and work in those I clearly know are under my control. The anxiety comes from those things I am lost in the sense I dont know if I should push more or I should give up.

My next tattoo is representing "the devil is in the details". I've had so many discussions with people over the years where someone will say "why doesn't X company/government just do Y". Well, because it's very rarely that easy. Just use black magic, that'll solve all our problems right?

http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali...

Re: Anxiety in product development

#50

Post by wnmurphy »

codr7 wrote: post #34

I've spent around 34 years writing code so far. My last project was an online order system for a lunch restaurant. To get an idea what kind of problems they're dealing with, I started by working two weeks in the restaurant. To my surprise I found that I actually enjoy delivering food more than writing code. As long as the customers get the food they ordered delivered in time, everyone is happy. And once I'm done, I'm…

> To get an idea what kind of problems they're dealing with, I started by working two weeks in the restaurant.

LOVE this.

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