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Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

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Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#41
post #8

Was this known early on about COVID? Early on in the lockdown I noticed that these vitamins were among the kind of weird items completely cleared out of stores. People were very selective... initially all FHD laptops and Chromebooks were gone, along with power strips, ibuprofen, hair clippers, etc.

Yes, there's long been a vague suspicion. There's been probably at least 30 studies so far going back months that have shown a possible correlation with low Vitamin D and bad COVID outcomes. The problem is that all of the studies thus far haven been retrospective (meaning looking back at old patient test data with no control group and no active treatment). In other words, all they said was "it seemed like the people with normal vitamin levels also seem to do better".

The problem with that is there are a million reasons Vitamin D might correlate to better outcomes even if it's just a total co-incidence - generally healthy people might spend more time in the sun, health-conscious people might be more likely to take vitamins, other conditions may cause a lack of Vitamin D, etc. There's no proof that supplementing would actually improve outcomes.

This is the first study I've seen that claims to show directly that a supplement given during a hospital stay directly improved outcomes. It's a tiny study, but interesting and hopefully leads to more studies.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, you don’t need a supplement. I get regular checkups. I’ve never had a deficiency in any vitamin except D.

Vitamin D deficiency is very common especially in people who spend their daytime hours inside and also in dark skinned people living in northern latitudes. In the UK doctors recommend everyone takes a vitamin D supplement in the winter.

I've never heard this, where is it recommended?

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#43
post #3
post #2

N=43 (17 given vitamins vs 26 not) Highlights: "Significantly fewer DMB patients than controls required initiation of oxygen therapy subsequently throughout their hospitalization (17.6% vs 61.5%, P=0.006)." "DMB combination in older COVID-19 patients was associated with a significant reduction in proportion of patients with clinical deterioration requiring oxygen support and/or intensive care support. This study supp…

> Since taking a basic multi-vitamin is good anyway.... Could you elaborate on that? I thought that taking vitamin supplements without a recommendation from a doctor is just a way to have very expensive piss. Most of the things that get in, are removed from the body without being absorbed.

This is a misnomer according to a recent guest on the Joe Rogan podcast.

Granted that might not be the best source, I reflected on that and the chemistry makes sense.

Vitamins primarily will leach out via osmosis. Osmosis works by gradients. This probably means an exponential decay of absorption relative to concentration and as you consume more, your body will waste progressively more and uptake will be less efficient per unit mass.

But it's not boolean/binary - your body doesn't suddenly stop everything after an arbitrary cutoff.

There's an elegance to this - it means there is a lot of leeway in consumption so it is hard to overdose. But it also means that if you "need" to increase bioavailability of a water soluble vitamin, you can simply consume more orally and it will increase. It just becomes progressively more wasteful to do via that means. (IV is more efficient in this manner)

So I suppose wasteful is not the same as pointless/useless

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#44
post #2

N=43 (17 given vitamins vs 26 not) Highlights: "Significantly fewer DMB patients than controls required initiation of oxygen therapy subsequently throughout their hospitalization (17.6% vs 61.5%, P=0.006)." "DMB combination in older COVID-19 patients was associated with a significant reduction in proportion of patients with clinical deterioration requiring oxygen support and/or intensive care support. This study supp…

> Since taking a basic multi-vitamin is good anyway, it seems wise to do that.

There is no evidence that taking a basic mulit-vitamin has any benefit for average people. Depending on the composition of vitamins it can be harmful [1].

[1] https://www.cochrane.org/CD007176/LIVER_antioxidant-suppleme...

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#45
post #29
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, taking 3 vitamins is almost entirely harmless.

Many things are almost entirely harmless, but before recommending you do them anyway, you probably want to look at whether there's any point. Turning round in a circle three times before you leave the house is almost entirely harmless, and there's no evidence that doesn't stop you getting coronavirus...

Turning round in a circle three times also doesn't improve your health in general. Getting the right vitamins does improve your health.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#46
post #7
post #2

N=43 (17 given vitamins vs 26 not) Highlights: "Significantly fewer DMB patients than controls required initiation of oxygen therapy subsequently throughout their hospitalization (17.6% vs 61.5%, P=0.006)." "DMB combination in older COVID-19 patients was associated with a significant reduction in proportion of patients with clinical deterioration requiring oxygen support and/or intensive care support. This study supp…

The number of people in the study is too small to really make much in the way of definitive conclusions. But it is certainly enough that a larger study should occur. In the meantime, since vitamins are cheap and not dangerous at these doses, it seems a reasonable measure to go ahead and take them. They might help, there's weak evidence to suggest that they might, and they shouldn't hurt. However, it's important not t…

One thing to keep in mind in the US is that dietary supplements aren’t regulated by the FDA. Consumers have to place a lot of trust in the manufacturer that their product is free from potentially harmful contaminants.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#47
post #16

I wonder, when I see stories about studies about treating patients with basic nutrients and vitamins, if a root-cause to consider is that our standard diets are so deprived of essential vitamins and minerals that "treating" someone with what they have been missing causes the body to simply function the way it's supposed to. I haven't read the full study but if it takes into account what someone's diet was prior to th…

You are right and it is no secret: - 40% of US Americans are B12 deficient https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/#:~:... . - 42% are Vitamin D deficient: https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-america... . - up to 50% are Magnesium deficient: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h... - 10 - 20% of women are iron deficient: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0301/p671.h…

I just followed the link you posted about 40% being B12 deficient but could not find 40% mentioned anywhere other than the headline.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#48
post #21
post #8

Was this known early on about COVID? Early on in the lockdown I noticed that these vitamins were among the kind of weird items completely cleared out of stores. People were very selective... initially all FHD laptops and Chromebooks were gone, along with power strips, ibuprofen, hair clippers, etc.

Vitamin D has been thrown around a lot from the get-go, probably because of its value against other forms of coronavirus including SARS and viral infection in general. My layman's understanding is that supplementation hasn't shown to be effective, meaning D deficiency may be a co-indicator. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7189189/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3308600/#:~:tex... .

Perhaps Vitamin D status is just an indicator of adequate sunshine on the skin. This would explain why people with low vitamin D are more susceptible, yet supplementation with Vitamin D is ineffective.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right and it is no secret: - 40% of US Americans are B12 deficient https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/#:~:... . - 42% are Vitamin D deficient: https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-america... . - up to 50% are Magnesium deficient: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h... - 10 - 20% of women are iron deficient: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0301/p671.h…

Presumably it's relatively easy for a lab to run a panel of tests on me and say "you're deficient in X, Y, Z; try eating more A B C; spend 30mins extra a week outside; drink less alcohol". How easy is it too get such tests (in UK), I'm surprised we don't seem to have anything like this as part of our health system. I've had blood pressure and height/weight taken a couple of times (I'm middle aged). But that's about a…

Just measuring those 4 costs 83€ in a laboratory in Vienna. And there are more measurements one should probably take! And you need to test them more than once to see if supplementation works and you are not getting too much.

That's not cheap...

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#50
post #16

I wonder, when I see stories about studies about treating patients with basic nutrients and vitamins, if a root-cause to consider is that our standard diets are so deprived of essential vitamins and minerals that "treating" someone with what they have been missing causes the body to simply function the way it's supposed to. I haven't read the full study but if it takes into account what someone's diet was prior to th…

You are right and it is no secret: - 40% of US Americans are B12 deficient https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/#:~:... . - 42% are Vitamin D deficient: https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-america... . - up to 50% are Magnesium deficient: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h... - 10 - 20% of women are iron deficient: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0301/p671.h…

> If I was filthy rich I would get nutrient levels measured once a week.

This sounds similar to what services like Viome (https://www.viome.com) do. Though, their intervals (at least Viome's) are much longer.

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