Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow • Hacker News Board

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#41

Post by 0xy » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 6:02 AM UTC

waon wrote: post #38

0xy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't support unions because unions drag everyone's wages to an average (I'd rather be a top performer and be paid accordingly). Also, I've seen first hand the amount of incompetent teachers, police and government employees who are unfireable because of unions. So the concept of a union for me personally means I'll be paid less, be surrounded by unfireable underperformers and have zero incentive to improve my craft…

> I also truly don't understand how you can allow politics to be so deeply embedded in your work. The president of the United States is threatening military violence against its own citizens and you criticize people for being "political"? Seriously?

Your comment removes so much context that it's nearly deceptive. He threatened military violence against rioting and looting, driven by terrorism.

Some of these rioters set fire to occupied buildings with children inside and prevented emergency services from accessing the location. In other words, property destruction and attempted murder.

Do you propose this behavior should be met with praise and not violence?

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#42

Post by 0xy » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 6:05 AM UTC

edoceo wrote: post #4

I support this walkout. As a small business owner all I've been able to do was purge my FB page profiles. I'm proud of them for taking a bigger step than I'm able to make. Working people of all countries unite. Seize the means of production!

This action only harms your business. You lose business, reach and free advertising. Facebook loses nothing.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#43

Post by kevinh » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 6:06 AM UTC

tayo42 wrote: post #28

What's with the cynicism in this posts? They're trying to make a point and bring awareness. Who cares how hard it is. At least they're doing something. To give them credit they're making a political statement at work when we're told not to talk politics at work.

People don't support what they're doing but don't think that's as strong of an argument so they use different tactics to try to minimize these actions.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#44

Post by jakelazaroff » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 6:06 AM UTC

0xy wrote: post #41

waon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also truly don't understand how you can allow politics to be so deeply embedded in your work. The president of the United States is threatening military violence against its own citizens and you criticize people for being "political"? Seriously?

Your comment removes so much context that it's nearly deceptive. He threatened military violence against rioting and looting, driven by terrorism. Some of these rioters set fire to occupied buildings with children inside and prevented emergency services from accessing the location. In other words, property destruction and attempted murder. Do you propose this behavior should be met with praise and not violence?

Property destruction should absolutely not be met with violence, no. Things can be replaced. People cannot.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#45

Post by malandrew » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 6:06 AM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #19

jakelazaroff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right now engineers have incredible leverage. If the engineers’ leverage is so great, why have they been unable to enact policies they support?

Policies that engineers in general truly support are rare. Many engineers - I suspect the majority - just don't feel that strongly about most causes.

It’s hard to feel strongly about any cause when you’re generally intelligent enough to reason Ng about multiple aspects and develop a nuanced understanding.

Generally, the less intelligent someone is, the more strongly I observe them feeling about things.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#46

Post by 0xy » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 6:08 AM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #39

0xy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't support unions because unions drag everyone's wages to an average (I'd rather be a top performer and be paid accordingly). Also, I've seen first hand the amount of incompetent teachers, police and government employees who are unfireable because of unions. So the concept of a union for me personally means I'll be paid less, be surrounded by unfireable underperformers and have zero incentive to improve my craft…

> I don't support unions because unions drag everyone's wages to an average (I'd rather be a top performer and be paid accordingly). I see so many more people with this viewpoint than can statistically all be “top performers”. Given the low likelihood that any given person is a top performer, isn’t it better to organize in such a way that we all benefit?

Not when there's so much public information on wages. Compare your wage to the average among others in your location with your title. In my case, I earn about 110% more than the average salary for my title in my location. If I earned the average salary, I wouldn't be so high performing. I wouldn't care about my work beyond the minimum required to not be fired.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#47

Post by kevinh » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 6:09 AM UTC

0xy wrote: post #41

waon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also truly don't understand how you can allow politics to be so deeply embedded in your work. The president of the United States is threatening military violence against its own citizens and you criticize people for being "political"? Seriously?

Your comment removes so much context that it's nearly deceptive. He threatened military violence against rioting and looting, driven by terrorism. Some of these rioters set fire to occupied buildings with children inside and prevented emergency services from accessing the location. In other words, property destruction and attempted murder. Do you propose this behavior should be met with praise and not violence?

These are protests against actual murders and property damage. Should the standards you're applying to the protesters be applied to the police?

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#48

Post by onion2k » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 6:10 AM UTC

0xy wrote: post #41

waon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also truly don't understand how you can allow politics to be so deeply embedded in your work. The president of the United States is threatening military violence against its own citizens and you criticize people for being "political"? Seriously?

Your comment removes so much context that it's nearly deceptive. He threatened military violence against rioting and looting, driven by terrorism. Some of these rioters set fire to occupied buildings with children inside and prevented emergency services from accessing the location. In other words, property destruction and attempted murder. Do you propose this behavior should be met with praise and not violence?

It shouldn't be met with more violence.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#49

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 6:10 AM UTC

iscrewyou wrote: post #20

RHSeeger wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It's my understanding that doctors and lawyers have professional organizations, which aren't really the same thing as a union. 2. Unions and professional organizations, and really all organizations intended to consolidate power for one group over another, have both good points and bad. Obviously, unions have played an important role in improving worker safety and security, and that's great. But they've also contri…

> 1. It's my understanding that doctors and lawyers have professional organizations, which aren't really the same thing as a union. False. Professional organization give licensure. The union represents those who have licenses and or work for an agency where majority of those license holders work. > 2. ...Obviously, unions have played an important role in improving worker safety and security, and that's great. But the…

> False. Professional organization give licensure. The union represents those who have licenses and or work for an agency where majority of those license holders work.

Incorrect!

Most doctors are probably solo or group practice. This means one or a few doctors work together in a business that they own. This business then contracts with hospitals to provide services. Kaiser Permanente is different in that it hires doctors directly, but it is the minority.

The AMA (American Medical Association) is not a union and does not negotiate on behalf of doctors. It is more a lobbying and advocacy group.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#50

Post by waon » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 6:10 AM UTC

0xy wrote: post #41

waon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also truly don't understand how you can allow politics to be so deeply embedded in your work. The president of the United States is threatening military violence against its own citizens and you criticize people for being "political"? Seriously?

Your comment removes so much context that it's nearly deceptive. He threatened military violence against rioting and looting, driven by terrorism. Some of these rioters set fire to occupied buildings with children inside and prevented emergency services from accessing the location. In other words, property destruction and attempted murder. Do you propose this behavior should be met with praise and not violence?

> Your comment removes so much context that it's nearly deceptive.

How much more "context" do you need? You don't go around dispatching the military to shoot at your own citizens, not in a state governed by the rule of law. No amount of civil unrest will let an accountable government get away with that.

> Do you propose this behavior should be met with praise and not violence?

Please don't put words in my mouth.