Live data from Hacker News

No Brilliant Jerks

leadershipnow.com

41–50 of 66 posts

Re: No Brilliant Jerks

#41
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society has mostly tolerated jerks - Bill Gates was a jerk during his Microsoft days, Steve Jobs too, etc. Hollywood has a long list of jerks, bordering on criminal level behavior. Somehow they were (are) tolerated by society, many people even believe one needs to be a jerk at certain levels to succeed. If a junior person on a team is a jerk, he'll be called out quickly vs a boss who is a jerk. Like everything in lif…

I think society tolerates jerks because they feel that the jerk creates more value than they take away.

Yeah, and then there are some jerks that think that by throwing a hissy fit in a meeting they're the next Steve Jobs. Well, they're not. Jerks.

Re: No Brilliant Jerks

#42
You could also flip this around and say “No weak willed overly sensitive people”

Most people are fine with jerks. Just like most people aren’t jerks. It’s when the minority group “jerks” intersects with minority group “wimps” that problems show up.

And I would say both groups are equally toxic to company culture.

Re: No Brilliant Jerks

#43
The world is run and shaped by "jerks".

Whether you like it or not. If we look past 21st century culture and look back upon history...

- Caesar (killed/enslaved 1 million+ gauls)

- Augustus (killed anyone who posed a political threat, killed a lot in general)

- Genghis Khan (killed... well, he killed a lot)

- Napoleon (got hundreds of thousands of people from every European nation killed)

- The list goes on.

Name one famous historical figure who had power of some sort who didn't do anything "jerk-like".

The problem with the "jerk" definition is that the author nor most people have ever been in a position of great power. He does not understand how difficult and stressful it is to be the CEO of a big company or a top political leader.

I believe that in a position of great power, the power holder is forced to do some "jerk-like" things. You gotta make harsh decisions.

E.g. if Augustus didn't kill off all his political opponents (including Caesar's supposed only biological son), it is likely Rome will be thrown into more civil war.

Every guy has a "jerk" inside of them, and when put into a stressful situation, they are capable of using it.

Re: No Brilliant Jerks

#44

You could also flip this around and say “No weak willed overly sensitive people” Most people are fine with jerks. Just like most people aren’t jerks. It’s when the minority group “jerks” intersects with minority group “wimps” that problems show up. And I would say both groups are equally toxic to company culture.

> Most people are fine with jerks

If this was the case, would they really be jerks?

Re: No Brilliant Jerks

#45
Jerks exist because they've been selected by Natural Selection.

Either the existence of a Jerk helps the Jerk himself survive and propagate his genes or the existence of a Jerk within a group helps groups that contain jerks survive.

If you think about it at a very surface level. Everyone hates Jerks so why does a Jerk even exist at all? Everything a Jerk does will lower his individual chances of survival by making people hate them. Humans are social creatures and an anti-social person likely will not survive if the group hates them.

Group dynamics of humans will ultimately select out Jerks. That is unless the Jerk has something to offer beyond making everyone hate them.

Obviously Jerks exist in our world, so their continued existence must offer something beneficial to the group. What would that be?

So imagine this situation. There's a software engineer at a company who's well liked. He's super nice, friendly, good-looking BUT he's ultimately not a very good software engineer. His skills are well below average, his boss knows it, everyone who's worked with him knows it, the only people who don't seem to know it is he himself and people who haven't directly worked with him. His skills are so poor that he would be fired if he wasn't so well liked.

Therein lies the problem. His Boss likes him but is unable to be honest with him about how his skills are so horrible that he'll be fired if everyone knows about how shitty his skills are. The person is so nice and well liked that not only is his career getting protected but his feelings are being protected as well because nobody wants to be a Jerk and hurt those feelings by telling him the reality.

Then a real Jerk of a person is suddenly assigned to work with this nice guy. The Jerk immediately sees the problem and reveals the truth to everyone. The Jerk regularly says things along the lines of: "This guy is useless, he doesn't know shit, the guy can't even code properly. His code is complete garbage." The Jerk publicly says these things and reveals to everyone the reality of the situation.

These are very toxic words that introduce aggression into the workplace.

But the Jerk introduces truth into the workplace. The Jerk was the only person who tells things like it is at face value. If the Jerk wasn't there, the well liked person would continue to be in that role and function as a parasite with the person himself and most of the company oblivious to the reality of the situation.

The cost of empathy is a mask placed over reality.

If your organization doesn't have Jerks then I almost guarantee that there is very likely to be huge issues within the organization that are masked by etiquette. The Jerk is essentially telling the truth and revealing big issues at great cost to himself. It's almost a form of self sacrifice.

In my my mind the Jerk exists because he benefits the group, but his actions come at great cost to his individual survival because Jerks aren't well liked.

Additionally I would argue that the term "Jerk" is a misnomer. Someone who is explicit about the truth should not be called a Jerk, especially when the truth comes at such a high cost.

The real Jerk is someone who deliberately covers up the truth. A manipulative person is never called a Jerk. A company without a single Jerk, a company where people have nearly perfect etiquette and friendly communication is also a company with a high number of manipulative people and likely deep problems that aren't discussed.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather deal with an oblivious Jerk than a well liked manipulator.

Re: No Brilliant Jerks

#46

The world is run and shaped by "jerks". Whether you like it or not. If we look past 21st century culture and look back upon history... - Caesar (killed/enslaved 1 million+ gauls) - Augustus (killed anyone who posed a political threat, killed a lot in general) - Genghis Khan (killed... well, he killed a lot) - Napoleon (got hundreds of thousands of people from every European nation killed) - The list goes on. Name one…

> I believe that in a position of great power, the power holder is forced to do some "jerk-like" things. You gotta make harsh decisions.

One of your examples is Hitler for God's sake. Everybody else eventually bundled to fight him, including second biggest murderer of the time. And no, Hitler did not done what he done because he had no other choice as a powerful man. Seriously.

You literally collected the biggest psychopaths and claim "this is how leaders must be". Nope, we as a whole do very well when people like these are under control and don't get power.

We really really don't need Hitlers and Napoleons.

Re: No Brilliant Jerks

#47

The world is run and shaped by "jerks". Whether you like it or not. If we look past 21st century culture and look back upon history... - Caesar (killed/enslaved 1 million+ gauls) - Augustus (killed anyone who posed a political threat, killed a lot in general) - Genghis Khan (killed... well, he killed a lot) - Napoleon (got hundreds of thousands of people from every European nation killed) - The list goes on. Name one…

> Name one famous historical figure who had power of some sort who didn't do anything "jerk-like".

That’s a straw man. Everyone is a jerk sometimes.

There have been great people who changed the world without a predominantly jerky reputation. I don’t find much evidence Einstein was considered one, for example.

His letter to Marie Curie is a good read. https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/04/19/einstein-curie-lett...

Re: No Brilliant Jerks

#48
I sometimes wonder if I might be a jerk. I regularly ponder this topic, and think of ways I can mitigate. I've delivered an increased amount of business value (not by being "brilliant", but rather, just pragmatic)-- and that required making some breaking changes. Engineers in other parts of the organization who use the same software are of course inconvenienced by this. I've put a lot of effort into minimizing where the changes are breaking, but it seems impossible to appease my colleagues. Was breaking the psychological safety of inter-team communication worth it, if it means the business can meet its goals more quickly and effectively?

Re: No Brilliant Jerks

#49

I sometimes wonder if I might be a jerk. I regularly ponder this topic, and think of ways I can mitigate. I've delivered an increased amount of business value (not by being "brilliant", but rather, just pragmatic)-- and that required making some breaking changes. Engineers in other parts of the organization who use the same software are of course inconvenienced by this. I've put a lot of effort into minimizing where…

No, that sounds like leadership. Being a brilliant jerk, to my mind, is making thoughtless changes constantly and rapidly.

There are times when you have no choice but to be disruptive. The trick, as I see it, is to only be as disruptive that you need Be and no more. And when you are disruptive, be prepared for breakage that needs to be repaired, and be ready to communicate - extensively.

Also: you had better not be wrong in your disruption.

Post reply on HN