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University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

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Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#41

Post by anon102010 »

hpoe wrote: post #3

I know some people protest measures that are considered more "objective" over measures that are more "holistic", whether this is in school admittance, performance evaluation, promotion consideration, interviewing, determining welfare benefits, choosing who makes the rules and governs. However it has been my experience that whenever an explicit test or hierarchy is removed another shadow one builds up that is more sub…

I didn't have a tutor, I got relatively bad grades in school (was boared?) - SAT was a game changer for me - got me into a good school -> learned some stuff -> making great money.

The question is not, is the SAT bad, it is, what about the new system will be better and fairer.

The other factor - this is likely a way to reduce asian american attendance at the top UC schools. The Harvard case really revealed how legacy admits etc came in with MUCH lower scores. Same thing with the scandal around sports admits, a way to get in with MUCH lower SAT scores. I'm not against either, but getting away from SAT will help hide this fact (ie, big donor gets kid in even if they are 200 points lower than average).

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#42

Post by mberning »

Higher education is an absolutely shameful industry. They work hand in glove with public and private financiers and textbook cartels to sell 18 year olds on a highly speculative “investment” that very frequently turns out to be worthless from an economic standpoint. This is jus another way to further push open the floodgates.

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#43

Post by jcims »

xxpor wrote: post #20
adammunich wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hardly call rich parents paying for SAT prep classes a better solution.

So instead you have the luck of the draw of what classes your HS wants to put you in and their crazy grading system? My HS's GPA wasn't out of 4, for example. Also if you ended up in Mr. Boris's class instead of Mrs. Solomon, you basically automatically lost a whole letter grade.

Or STEM schools (presumably not all) where ‘mastery’ is the tracked objective, achieved when you scored 80% or higher on tests. However, when mastery is translated to standard scoring models/transcripts it’s recorded as 100%.

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#44

Post by awillen »

hpoe wrote: post #3

I know some people protest measures that are considered more "objective" over measures that are more "holistic", whether this is in school admittance, performance evaluation, promotion consideration, interviewing, determining welfare benefits, choosing who makes the rules and governs. However it has been my experience that whenever an explicit test or hierarchy is removed another shadow one builds up that is more sub…

Yeah, I agree with this 100% - these students are going to be compared to each other somehow, and it's always going to be imperfect and favor those who are better off. Still, these tests are at least relatively objective, and if you remove them the kids will be compared with less objective measures that allow for more bias to be introduced.

The SAT/ACT are the worst form of college admission criteria very much in the same way that democracy is the worst form of government... except for all the others. A lot of people criticize them, but those critics haven't come up with anything better.

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#45

Post by realbarack »

usui wrote: post #23

Yes, finally! As someone who underwent the standardized testing grind, I have been waiting for an announcement like this by a university system for years. I understand that there needs to be some standardized way to objectively score students, because allocating college seats to students seems to be an induced scarcity problem. However, as someone who scored highly and is currently studying computer science at UC Ber…

The problem is that whatever fills the void left by SAT and ACT will likely be _easier_ to game. Standardized tests are not perfect but they're a better signal than extracurricular checkboxes or professionally-edited essays.

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#46

Post by paxys »

nicholas73 wrote: post #30

I had middling grades and not much extracurricular padding in high school but 99th percentile SAT (no prep other than a practice test). If it weren't for the SAT I would have had worse college options. School felt like it provided nothing more than read and regurg and my background did not promote anything extra. So personally I do not see how this decision evens the playing field.

There are a lot more cases which are the exact opposite. People who have done well in school, extra curriculars and more, but are held back by a meaningless test.

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#47

Post by fullshark »

remarkEon wrote: post #33

That sound you hear is panicked elites, rushing to the "side door" of the UC system in an attempt to figure out how best to influence their kid's probability of admission since paying a few grand for prep sessions (for piece of mind, mostly) on what's a pretty darn good measure of academic aptitude is a waste of everyone's time, now that the test is rendered meaningless ... until California develops their own. I'm su…

Whatever the system is, parents with resources and the awareness to care about gaming the system will game it.

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#48

Post by anon102010 »

remarkEon wrote: post #33

That sound you hear is panicked elites, rushing to the "side door" of the UC system in an attempt to figure out how best to influence their kid's probability of admission since paying a few grand for prep sessions (for piece of mind, mostly) on what's a pretty darn good measure of academic aptitude is a waste of everyone's time, now that the test is rendered meaningless ... until California develops their own. I'm su…

Haha.. I think you have this backwards! If you think money can buy a good SAT score - go make some. Reality? Much easier to pay for a trip to "volunteer" in africa or at the local hospital, get on sports teams etc etc. If you have $$ being head of club X is a cakewalk! I had life changing SAT scores, and while prep helps, that slacker kid isn't getting 1600

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#49

Post by m0zg »

Abolish entrance exams entirely. Replace them with the exams at the end of first semester coupled with some rudimentary requirement that e.g. if you want to do math your high school math grade is OK. Make the first semester de-facto "remedial education" oriented and vastly reduce fees. Basically start with a giant, relatively inexpensive MOOC (possibly joint with other schools to reduce overhead) and then filter that down to people who are going to be able to pull their weight.

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#50

Post by saagarjha »

zests wrote: post #31
basementcat wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, this may prompt more students to take the AMC examinations. https://www.maa.org/math-competitions

Good luck self studying for those -- I tried. I made AIME but had no chance there. There's no way a significant number of generic public high schools start caring about the AMC. It will just be helicopter parents, wealthy private schools and the odd self motivated student.

You can study for the AMC–I used to (disclaimer: I knew a lot people who did so as well). However, doing well on the AMC usually means you need to actually understand what you're doing; it's fairly difficult to cheese your way through.
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