I used to love the shit out of Debian., but nowadays, that I am really startled and shocked what it had become.
Try to get nvidia graphics running on an optimus based laptop, and you will find yourself in a midst of an multiple hour long try and error prone session of head-shaking and cursing. Graphics installer -> no touchpad?!?!? Blueutooth A2DP -> fix it by hand..... This list goes on and on and on...
Debian 10.4
41–50 of 54 posts
Re: Debian 10.4
#42Please note: Starting with Debian 7, the minor number is not part of the Debian release number, and numbers with a minor component like 9.4 or 9.7 now indicate a point release. Basically, only security updates and major bug fixes, with new updated installation media images. This, 10.4, is not a new major release of Debian.
Re: Debian 10.4
#43As a relative Linux newbie, who's running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on two laptops at home, would there be any advantages to Debian 10.4 over Ubuntu 20.04? (I assume at least some of that answer would depend on my use cases and hardware, but if you have general insights to the differences, some of us might find that useful!)
Ubuntu is based on Debian so things such as the way to install applications and the variety of applications available are very similar especially when compared to Fedora, Arch and others which use different package managers.
Main difference you might notice on Debian 10.4 vs Ubuntu 20.04 is that the default Gnome on Debian is a couple of versions behind. Debian only updates security patches rather than new releases between main Debian version releases (10.4 is more like a security update rather than a major new release). You would have to run Debian Testing or Debian Unstable/Sid in order to get the same Gnome version (3.36) as on Ubuntu 20.04.
Other than that there are no Snaps enabled/installed by default (you can install/enable them yourself if you choose to do so) and Debian Gnome is the way the Gnome developers intended it without any extra extensions and customization done (Ubuntu comes with several extensions and other customization enabled by default). You can install these manually yourself if you choose to do so.
Do remember to pick the non-free (as in it includes non-free firmware) ISO from Debian's website as chances are your WiFi won't work if you go with the official free software only ISO.
If you go with the NetInst ISO you can install minimal Gnome which comes without any additional software (untick everything on the last step, log in when the install is finished and then install gnome-core using apt install gnome-core).
Re: Debian 10.4
#44My problem with Debian (and Ubuntu) has been that often when I want to install a seemingly little piece of software, be it a library or a program, I end up getting the whole slew of stuff - frameworks, daemons, even language processors I haven't suspected existed. (This may not be the distro's problem, but I believe at least some of those things may be optional, and I would have liked to treat them as such.)
You can’t even install a GUI without getting every web browser, mail client, office suite, and more under the sun.
If you go with the NetInst ISO you can install minimal Gnome (or whichever desktop environment you prefer) which comes without any additional software. You have to untick everything on the last step where it asks you to choose your DE, log in when the install is finished and then install gnome-core using apt install gnome-core. This is Gnome with Gnome Software, Gnome Terminal and other major pieces but without mail client, office, games etc.
Re: Debian 10.4
#45Please note: Starting with Debian 7, the minor number is not part of the Debian release number, and numbers with a minor component like 9.4 or 9.7 now indicate a point release. Basically, only security updates and major bug fixes, with new updated installation media images. This, 10.4, is not a new major release of Debian.
So your point is that a .x release is a minor, point release? Isn't that obvious by itself?
Re: Debian 10.4
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
I use both gentoo and debian. I find it hard for either one to replace the other. I can't let go of the control gentoo gives me and as you noted the smooth and stable binary based debian let's you get the job done fast with little hustle. I try to mix and match, using gentoo as a minimalist and debian as a full blown desktop or prod network(http,etc...) server.
In which cases do you need the minimalism Gentoo provides?
I've seen companies using Gentoo (with a lot of tooling around it) in specialized context.
Particularly in military contracts, Gentoo brings you several things:
1) you have a full audit trace from the compilation, and in paranoid situation, it's a huge plus.
2) it permits you to minimize the OS footprint quite a lot (feature flags), which helps improving security (less exposure).
3) it permits an high degree of customization, including the combination of software versions used.
4) it's relatively easy to import a patch and maintain an overlay yourself.
We have to keep in mind the constrains of Military contracts: The systems tends to be quite complex, validation is quite lengthy, updates are far in between, they tend to use specialized/weird/not powerful hardware which might need some tweaking, and the level of traceability is generally quite high.
Re: Debian 10.4
#47I used to love the shit out of Debian., but nowadays, that I am really startled and shocked what it had become. Try to get nvidia graphics running on an optimus based laptop, and you will find yourself in a midst of an multiple hour long try and error prone session of head-shaking and cursing. Graphics installer -> no touchpad?!?!? Blueutooth A2DP -> fix it by hand..... This list goes on and on and on...
Well, it's hardly a new issue.
Hardware support and lack of polishing has always been an issue in the Linux world and all distributions have suffered from it one way or another.
Having spent quite a lot of time in the past on this kind of issues, I do sympathize.
But from my experience, things actually tends to get a bit better now days, for example, I'm far less cautious about avoiding Broadcom ethernet and wifi cards as they generally tends to work out of the box today (even if I still prefer Intel for these).
Fighting hardware/default configuration issues is unfortunately be part of the game, but in my experience, it's a game I play less and less often.
Re: Debian 10.4
#48I used to love the shit out of Debian., but nowadays, that I am really startled and shocked what it had become. Try to get nvidia graphics running on an optimus based laptop, and you will find yourself in a midst of an multiple hour long try and error prone session of head-shaking and cursing. Graphics installer -> no touchpad?!?!? Blueutooth A2DP -> fix it by hand..... This list goes on and on and on...
I built a PC in 2005 with an Nvidia graphics card and ran Debian on it exclusively. I had a lot of trouble with that graphics card over the years, but that wasn't caused by Debian, but rather by Nvidia, because they did neither offer nor even support open source drivers. My conclusion was to not buy any Nvidia product again, until they offer proper open source drivers for it. Since I retired this PC I haven't owned any Nvidia product anymore and I couldn't be happier. Sure the drivers for other graphics cards aren't perfect either, but at least I don't have to deal with binary blobs anymore where nobody except of the manufacturer can fix issues.
Re: Debian 10.4
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
I use both gentoo and debian. I find it hard for either one to replace the other. I can't let go of the control gentoo gives me and as you noted the smooth and stable binary based debian let's you get the job done fast with little hustle. I try to mix and match, using gentoo as a minimalist and debian as a full blown desktop or prod network(http,etc...) server.
In which cases do you need the minimalism Gentoo provides?
Hypervisor,router/AP/Firewall.
Re: Debian 10.4
#50Please note: Starting with Debian 7, the minor number is not part of the Debian release number, and numbers with a minor component like 9.4 or 9.7 now indicate a point release. Basically, only security updates and major bug fixes, with new updated installation media images. This, 10.4, is not a new major release of Debian.
So your point is that a .x release is a minor, point release? Isn't that obvious by itself?
It didn’t use to be that way; Debian 3.1 was a major release after Debian 3.0, and Debian 6.0 had minor releases up to 6.0.10. This did not change until Debian 7 (which was called 7, not 7.0, and had a minor release numbered 7.1). Therefore, many people might still be used to the first minor version number being a major release, even though it is not true anymore.