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Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps

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Re: Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps

#41

Post by ddevault »

jayshua wrote: post #40
ddevault wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my computer, not yours. If you want to run software on it, I get to see the source code, that's the deal. We could agree that I can't use your software under these terms, but this would exploit those who don't understand the value of the source code. This is how spyware is born. If it runs on my machine, it's open source, or it's bunk. And, once again, you can sell open source software .

If two people, in full understanding of the value of source code, both decide for one to provide a proprietary closed-source software and the other to run it in exchange for money - is it still unethical?

I don't understand your question.

Re: Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps

#42

Post by metaobserver »

ddevault wrote: post #29
mwcampbell wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a very simplistic view of ethics. Most things are not that black and white. Proprietary licensing is the most successful funding model we've found so far for software. And that funding doesn't just make some people rich (though it certainly does that); it also pays for lots of developers to do things that often don't get done in less well-funded projects. Yes, some vendors abuse the power that propriet…

I reject any argument which justifies behavior because it makes someone money that they otherwise might not. Captalism does not justify a lack of ethics.

Your premise is wrong: there is nothing unethical about closed-source software. In 99% of the cases users want great software, great customer support and don't care about the source. If they really do, they can often sign an NDA and buy it. And that's fair. Free market doesn't need a pseudo-ethical middle-man.

Re: Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps

#43

Post by mwcampbell »

ddevault wrote: post #39
mwcampbell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might have misunderstood my argument. My main argument is that the money from selling proprietary licenses also pays lots of developers to work on important things, which they wouldn't (often couldn't) do if they weren't getting paid for it. So the users of the software are better off because the developers were able to do important work and get paid for it. And that was only possible because the vendor c…

Don't forget that (and this has been mentioned four times now in this thread) you can sell open source software . No need to beg for donations. Charge for the software and for the source code.

But then as soon as a paying customer exercises freedom 2 and helps their neighbors by redistributing the software on the Internet, the vendor is most likely screwed. Particularly if they developed a great piece of end-user software that doesn't need support, training, hosting, or any other service to go with it.

Re: Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps

#44

Post by koolba »

ddevault wrote: post #38
DrJokepu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is entitled to my labor either.

Correct. But we are entitled to the source code for programs which run on our computers, or is paid for by our taxes.

> Correct. But we are entitled to the source code for programs which run on our computers, ...

No you're not. If you want the source code for the programs to run on your computer either write them yourself, choose FOSS ones, or pay someone to write one that supplies the source.

Nobody is mandating you buy a particular piece of software or run it on your computer. You're choosing to do it. If you decide you're not going to run closed source software that's your personal choice.

> ... or is paid for by our taxes.

That's moving goal posts.

Re: Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps

#46

Post by ddevault »

mwcampbell wrote: post #43
ddevault wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that (and this has been mentioned four times now in this thread) you can sell open source software . No need to beg for donations. Charge for the software and for the source code.

But then as soon as a paying customer exercises freedom 2 and helps their neighbors by redistributing the software on the Internet, the vendor is most likely screwed. Particularly if they developed a great piece of end-user software that doesn't need support, training, hosting, or any other service to go with it.

Has this ever been shown to happen in practice? The vendor is the only one who can provide a guarantee that the distribution is genuine (i.e. not tampered with), provide timely updates, security notices, etc.

Re: Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps

#47

Post by ptx »

paypalcust83 wrote: post #14

Be very careful with licensing. VMware early-on had licensing code that disabled a customer's app and cost them a lot of money. Licensing of enterprise features is best to have a nag screen and disable some future actions rather than drop a ban-hammer. They were forced to strip out that code and ended up with weak enforcement of licensing. Telemetry and online verification are unacceptable to some customers of on-pre…

> open sources surveillance (search engines and warez sites)

That's the first time I've heard "open source" used to refer to a warez site.

Is this overloading of the term being seeded by someone in order to, in a roundabout way, discredit the open source movement? A few years ago there would have been an obvious suspect for such FUD, but they seem to have embraced open source these days, so that wouldn't make sense.

Weird.

Re: Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps

#48

Post by renewiltord »

ddevault wrote: post #38
DrJokepu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is entitled to my labor either.

Correct. But we are entitled to the source code for programs which run on our computers, or is paid for by our taxes.

Haha, I know that Sourcehut is open-source and you derive revenue from the fact that people prefer to use it as a SaaS product, but it is amusing that the SaaS-ness of it means that your statement only applies to the front-end portion.

Re: Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps

#49

Post by jayshua »

ddevault wrote: post #41
jayshua wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If two people, in full understanding of the value of source code, both decide for one to provide a proprietary closed-source software and the other to run it in exchange for money - is it still unethical?

I don't understand your question.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point then. I got from your posts roughly: It is unethical for end-user software to be closed source, everyone is fundamentally entitled to the source code for programs they run on their computer. Further, if an end-user decides not to run the closed-source software, it is still unethical because many people don't understand the value of source code and they are still being exploited when they purchase/run the software.

My question: Is it still unethical if the exchange and use of proprietary software is made only between people who fully understand the value of source code and decide to anyway?

Re: Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps

#50

Post by frknsn »

paypalcust83 wrote: post #14

Be very careful with licensing. VMware early-on had licensing code that disabled a customer's app and cost them a lot of money. Licensing of enterprise features is best to have a nag screen and disable some future actions rather than drop a ban-hammer. They were forced to strip out that code and ended up with weak enforcement of licensing. Telemetry and online verification are unacceptable to some customers of on-pre…

Thanks for your valuable comment!

I thought telemetry and online verification will be just an option. If some app vendor doesn't want their users to force such thing, they will not use it. However, maybe, for some specific users, it may make sense.

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