What Would a WeChat Replacement Need? • Hacker News Board

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#41

Post by verall » Fri, Apr 17, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

tanilama wrote: post #33

throwaway6250 wrote: post #24

People seem to have the idea that WeChat is some sort of amazing application -- it's not. In fact the only reason why it has the market share it does in China is simply because all competitors are blocked. Some of WeChat's real pain points are: - No backing up your messages to the cloud like WhatsApp or having them loaded from the server like Facebook Messenger. Moving all your messages from one phone to another is q…

> simply because all competitors are blocked. International competitors may be. Till this day, I didn't see something come close to what WeChat is offering in China. WeChat is like Chrome, it is so big and ubiquitous in China, it can dictate standard. The online backup of messages itself is a pain point I agree, but local transfer is possible, though a bit cumbersome.

I think the international opinion is that there is no WeChat competitor in China because people are afraid to step on the toes of those in power. Chrome is enormous and ubiquitous because maintaining a modern browser is orders of magnitude more difficult than maintaining a chat application.

Why do you think there a many competitors outside China but none in?

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#42

Post by balola » Fri, Apr 17, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

throwaway6250 wrote: post #24

People seem to have the idea that WeChat is some sort of amazing application -- it's not. In fact the only reason why it has the market share it does in China is simply because all competitors are blocked. Some of WeChat's real pain points are: - No backing up your messages to the cloud like WhatsApp or having them loaded from the server like Facebook Messenger. Moving all your messages from one phone to another is q…

>No backing up your messages to the cloud like WhatsApp or having them loaded from the server like Facebook Messenger.

Their old product QQ has it, the reason they didn't do it on WeChat, I think it's because they have no other choice since:

-They have to make WeChat "presentable" internationally, they means they can't appear to store it since they are beholden to China.

-They need to convey a message that they aren't watching you, but in reality their system needs to be monitored by Chinese police real time[1], since that rules out the option of E2E encryption, the only way is at least appear to be hands off.

[1]https://advox.globalvoices.org/2017/12/27/dont-call-xi-the-b...

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#43

Post by vbezhenar » Fri, Apr 17, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

naringas wrote: post #17

pwinnski wrote: post #9

It would need to be introduced in a single large city in 2011 and spread from there with the implicit backing of the federal government. It would not need a blockchain. There is no reason whatsoever for basing this on a blockchain.

But then we have to trust our government... and governments vary in their trustworthiness

It does not matter whether you trust the government or not. The only thing that matters is whether you can resist the government or not.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#44

Post by Aperocky » Fri, Apr 17, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

mcelhinney wrote: post #15

m11a wrote: post #14

I think people that feel WeChat is simply a social network don't understand WeChat. Though the article doesn't say this, the comments here and popular opinion generally think that. From my time visiting China I'm not sure it's possible to live, in the urban areas, without WeChat. Payments are basically all through WeChat; I found places that didn't take Visa/Mastercard (or even know what those were, although that may…

Just to add that most Chinese businesses accept payments through AliPay along with WeChat.

That is the duopoly in China. Alibaba and Wechat - the 2 apps that allow you to do everything. Including paying utilities, phone bills, even taxes.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#45

Post by hank_z » Fri, Apr 17, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

WeChat's dominance in Chinese social media is mainly due to its close relationship with CCP. It would be a different story if the market was open to west tech companies. Talking about a censorship resistant social media in China is completely a waste of time.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#46

Post by yibg » Fri, Apr 17, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

throwaway6250 wrote: post #24

People seem to have the idea that WeChat is some sort of amazing application -- it's not. In fact the only reason why it has the market share it does in China is simply because all competitors are blocked. Some of WeChat's real pain points are: - No backing up your messages to the cloud like WhatsApp or having them loaded from the server like Facebook Messenger. Moving all your messages from one phone to another is q…

I think you're missing the point and the reason for the appeal of wechat. In China it's much more than just a messaging platform, and reality is most people don't care about notification standards and such.

I've used wechat expensively in China and I wish there was something like that in the US. Wechat just makes it so much easier to do somethings and has a nice integration with life. Some examples outside of messaging:

- payments obvious, but also ability to send money, split bills etc.

- Orders things. Either in person at restaurants, delivery or a ride

- The social media aspect. A lot of events, tickets etc are sent via wechat.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#47

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 17, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

ausjke wrote: post #20

LINE, whatsapp etc are catching up wechat. Instead of cloning wechat, an alternative would be developing a proxy between IM apps, i.e. all wechat messages can be forwarded to whatsapp so it become part of whatsapp, well, kind of, it's painful to use whatsapp, LINE, telegram, wechat at the same time, need something to "unite" them so we can go to one place and do it all.

[deleted]

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#48

Post by yibg » Fri, Apr 17, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

verall wrote: post #41

tanilama wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> simply because all competitors are blocked. International competitors may be. Till this day, I didn't see something come close to what WeChat is offering in China. WeChat is like Chrome, it is so big and ubiquitous in China, it can dictate standard. The online backup of messages itself is a pain point I agree, but local transfer is possible, though a bit cumbersome.

I think the international opinion is that there is no WeChat competitor in China because people are afraid to step on the toes of those in power. Chrome is enormous and ubiquitous because maintaining a modern browser is orders of magnitude more difficult than maintaining a chat application. Why do you think there a many competitors outside China but none in?

I don't think there are competitors outside of china for wechat. In messaging space yes, but that's only one aspect of why wechat is popular in china. I don't know of anything anywhere that has the functionality and integration with everyday life that wechat has in China.

Maybe most people only see the outside of china version of wechat, which is primarily just chat. Inside china that's not the case.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#49

Post by yibg » Fri, Apr 17, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

m11a wrote: post #14

I think people that feel WeChat is simply a social network don't understand WeChat. Though the article doesn't say this, the comments here and popular opinion generally think that. From my time visiting China I'm not sure it's possible to live, in the urban areas, without WeChat. Payments are basically all through WeChat; I found places that didn't take Visa/Mastercard (or even know what those were, although that may…

I think also because wechat outside of china is a very stripped down version of wechat functionality inside china. It's actually very convenient for many aspects of life there.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#50

Post by thoraway1010 » Fri, Apr 17, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

ausjke wrote: post #20

LINE, whatsapp etc are catching up wechat. Instead of cloning wechat, an alternative would be developing a proxy between IM apps, i.e. all wechat messages can be forwarded to whatsapp so it become part of whatsapp, well, kind of, it's painful to use whatsapp, LINE, telegram, wechat at the same time, need something to "unite" them so we can go to one place and do it all.

100% not true. Who accepts payments using Line in china?

Wechat was doing 1 billion transactions PER DAY. Revenue for 2019 from fintech (wechat pay etc) was up something like 30% + (100B RMB?)

All these competitors "catching up" to wechat - I mean, is line even profitable or at similar scale?