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We need to talk about AirPods Pro

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Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#41

Post by qppo »

trashfindhunter wrote: post #40
leetcrew wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn’t ANC effectively twice the sound waves? ideally no, just the opposite. the idea of ANC is that you detect the frequency and amplitude of incoming waves, then generate a second wave with the same amplitude, but 180 degrees out of phase (so that the trough of the second wave aligns with the peak of the first). a perfect implementation would totally "cancel" the original sound with destructive interference. I'm n…

I've played with audio software for a long time and I recently experimented with Active Noise Cancellation. There are a few things to keep in mind: * A "live" ANC process has no control over the environment from which it receives the audio signals that it acts adversarially against. * When transmitting audio waves from one medium to another, there will be latency. Perhaps not much, but it will be there. If you accept…

So first off, doubling the amplitude is a 6dB increase in SPL. So not that bad actually.

Second off, instantaneous sound is only a health issue when it's really loud, like a gunshot (130-140dB SPL) near the point at which the ear drum ruptures. That means that you need to be in an environment where the background noise is dangerously loud to begin with, and because of the way sound is made - this might be unlikely. Which is interesting, because early ANC did have these problems - when it was being used initially for military applications (helicopter/tank pilots iirc).

Lastly the important thing to remember is that ANC is usually part of a dual pronged approach to ear protection. Latency is a problem when you need to cancel high frequencies (where you get past about a quarter wavelength and interference can become constructive), but ANC excels at low frequencies (below about 500-1kHz it can be remarkable even). This is great because passive reduction strategies (sealing off the ear, thick padding, good fit/headband adjustment) are much more effective at high frequencies.

So TL;DR it was a problem, been fixed, and where it might happen is pretty rare for a consumer.

Also noise rarely spontaneously inverts phase at a particular frequency. That'd be weird.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#42

Post by trashfindhunter »

qppo wrote: post #41
trashfindhunter wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played with audio software for a long time and I recently experimented with Active Noise Cancellation. There are a few things to keep in mind: * A "live" ANC process has no control over the environment from which it receives the audio signals that it acts adversarially against. * When transmitting audio waves from one medium to another, there will be latency. Perhaps not much, but it will be there. If you accept…

So first off, doubling the amplitude is a 6dB increase in SPL. So not that bad actually. Second off, instantaneous sound is only a health issue when it's really loud, like a gunshot (130-140dB SPL) near the point at which the ear drum ruptures. That means that you need to be in an environment where the background noise is dangerously loud to begin with, and because of the way sound is made - this might be unlikely. W…

Yeah, you're right about ear damage coinciding with exposure time - short bursts would have to be very loud to cause real damage.

And yes, it would be weird if a frequency range spontaneously inverted - the only scenario I can imagine that happening in is some jerk doing it on purpose.

The reason I became interested in ANC was because every night I would hear a terrible frequency being emitted from the air conditioner units above me (top floor apartment building), and during my experiments I quickly realized how hopeless it would be to effectively combat them due to the varying intensity of the sound throughout my apartment, the dynamic interactions of the sound with itself within my echoey wood floor studio, and my location at any one time. All valid points though, thanks for chiming in. I learned more about ANC :)

Edit: Btw my goal was ANC via speakers, not headphones. Headphones would be much easier since they only have a single, summed audio source.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#43

Post by JustResign »

novok wrote: post #36
JCharante wrote: post #6

I'm personally a fan of the conspiracy theory that because multiple ANC products have had their abilities reduced in firmware updates over the past couple years, research teams have been independently finding out that user's hearing are being damaged by highly effective ANC and have had to turn them down without admitting fault. Although I'm not even sure if that's how sound waves work, and recently there was Bose's…

That's my theory! I bought the airpods pro before nov, and around nov 2019 I developed tinnitus that I couldn't pinpoint the cause of, even after going to an ENT & Audiologists. After going to the Audiologist. I also found out tinitus is a big mystery in the medical field outside of a small band of causes that I didn't have. The only difference in my day to day was the Airpods Pro and biking to work with them.

Why would you bike wearing noise-cancelling headphones? It seems odd if one values one's life.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#44

Post by novok »

JustResign wrote: post #43
novok wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my theory! I bought the airpods pro before nov, and around nov 2019 I developed tinnitus that I couldn't pinpoint the cause of, even after going to an ENT & Audiologists. After going to the Audiologist. I also found out tinitus is a big mystery in the medical field outside of a small band of causes that I didn't have. The only difference in my day to day was the Airpods Pro and biking to work with them.

Why would you bike wearing noise-cancelling headphones? It seems odd if one values one's life.

They have a hear through option that works with wind noise, unlike a lot of other ones?

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#45

Post by berberous »

novok wrote: post #36
JCharante wrote: post #6

I'm personally a fan of the conspiracy theory that because multiple ANC products have had their abilities reduced in firmware updates over the past couple years, research teams have been independently finding out that user's hearing are being damaged by highly effective ANC and have had to turn them down without admitting fault. Although I'm not even sure if that's how sound waves work, and recently there was Bose's…

That's my theory! I bought the airpods pro before nov, and around nov 2019 I developed tinnitus that I couldn't pinpoint the cause of, even after going to an ENT & Audiologists. After going to the Audiologist. I also found out tinitus is a big mystery in the medical field outside of a small band of causes that I didn't have. The only difference in my day to day was the Airpods Pro and biking to work with them.

how old are you?

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#46

Post by trashfindhunter »

trashfindhunter wrote: post #42
qppo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So first off, doubling the amplitude is a 6dB increase in SPL. So not that bad actually. Second off, instantaneous sound is only a health issue when it's really loud, like a gunshot (130-140dB SPL) near the point at which the ear drum ruptures. That means that you need to be in an environment where the background noise is dangerously loud to begin with, and because of the way sound is made - this might be unlikely. W…

Yeah, you're right about ear damage coinciding with exposure time - short bursts would have to be very loud to cause real damage. And yes, it would be weird if a frequency range spontaneously inverted - the only scenario I can imagine that happening in is some jerk doing it on purpose. The reason I became interested in ANC was because every night I would hear a terrible frequency being emitted from the air conditione…

Then again... won't that summed audio source be at the mercy of my loud speakers?

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#47

Post by solarkraft »

trashfindhunter wrote: post #46
trashfindhunter wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you're right about ear damage coinciding with exposure time - short bursts would have to be very loud to cause real damage. And yes, it would be weird if a frequency range spontaneously inverted - the only scenario I can imagine that happening in is some jerk doing it on purpose. The reason I became interested in ANC was because every night I would hear a terrible frequency being emitted from the air conditione…

Then again... won't that summed audio source be at the mercy of my loud speakers?

If you mean by that that it couldn't be louder than what the speaker could produce: No, because you're adding to the original noise entering your ear from the outside.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#48

Post by herval »

I got a pair of Pros as soon as they came out. The fit was weird (maybe I got used to regular Airpods), but what made me return them is I ALWAYS got nausea after a few minutes with the noise cancelling turned on. It’s anecdotal of course, but maybe there was something on v1 that added latency/something to the external noise, thus inducing motion sickness? (Never got to try the new firmware to confirm the theory)

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#49

Post by valuearb »

jdashg wrote: post #7
JCharante wrote: post #6

I'm personally a fan of the conspiracy theory that because multiple ANC products have had their abilities reduced in firmware updates over the past couple years, research teams have been independently finding out that user's hearing are being damaged by highly effective ANC and have had to turn them down without admitting fault. Although I'm not even sure if that's how sound waves work, and recently there was Bose's…

This feels super-plausible to me, and it's something they would never, ever admit.

Lol, it’s the worst conspiracy theory ever, that a lack of noise damages eardrums.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#50

Post by netsharc »

ed wrote: post #3

> We need I think this problem is pretty far down the list of World’s Top Problems

It's an interesting hardware bug, but the author's writing and saying "This story should not be allowed to die" makes me see him as a huge self-important first world prick.
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