Thousands of coronavirus tests are going unused in US labs • Hacker News Board

Re: Thousands of coronavirus tests are going unused in US labs

#41

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:21 PM UTC

scottlocklin wrote: post #30

ceejayoz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It only killed as many as the flu” is a weird talking point. It killed that many with an unprecedented shutdown of the entire global economy to mitigate it.

Do you think the flu doesn't respond to the measures taken against corona-chan?

The point: Comparing annual flu deaths when we don't shut down the whole world to COVID-19 deaths when we do (especially to make the claim they're similarly dangerous) is insane.

If 100 people drown in lakes, that's not really odd. If 100 people drown in the middle of the Sahara a thousand miles from the nearest water, that's weird.

Re: Thousands of coronavirus tests are going unused in US labs

#42

Post by whatshisface » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:25 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #12

whatshisface wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, if the condition for giving up your rights is "the government says they have a good reason," then you never really had any rights at all. We're all smart, maybe there's a way to solve this without eliminating civil liberties - a way that we'll never discover if at the first sign of danger we yell "take our rights, oh wise rulers!" to the politicians who, of course, are willing to take them.

I know it's common for Americans to assume everything their government does is a false-flag pretext for a fascist power grab, but to assume the government never has a good reason for drastic measures even in the midst of a global pandemic seems more cynical than necessary. That's the kind of thinking that leads people to believe in FEMA death camps.

>I know it's common for Americans to assume everything their government does is a false-flag pretext for a fascist power grab

History does not support the most hyperbolic speculations, but it does support the idea that the USG files away at the base of lady liberty every time the public's back is turned. Remember the Patriot Act and 9-11?

Re: Thousands of coronavirus tests are going unused in US labs

#43

Post by kingkawn » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #32

EarthIsHome wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What civil liberties are you afraid of eliminating in a crisis like this?

Here's the thing - you really don't know until you're asked to give them up, and it's usually implied that you will only be giving them up for the duration of the crisis, but in reality you hardly ever get them back. This is how they get chipped away over time, so an abundance of caution must be used when deciding what you're will to give up, even during a crisis.

17,000 dead Americans in this circumstance is not a pittance of caution let alone an abundance

Re: Thousands of coronavirus tests are going unused in US labs

#44

Post by scottlocklin » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:31 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #41

scottlocklin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the flu doesn't respond to the measures taken against corona-chan?

The point: Comparing annual flu deaths when we don't shut down the whole world to COVID-19 deaths when we do (especially to make the claim they're similarly dangerous) is insane. If 100 people drown in lakes, that's not really odd. If 100 people drown in the middle of the Sahara a thousand miles from the nearest water, that's weird.

Looked to me like he was comparing flu deaths now to corona deaths now. If indeed those numbers are comparable or the same, we've probably made a terrible mistake. Maybe looking at total pneumonia deaths for anomalies is the right thing to do?

Re: Thousands of coronavirus tests are going unused in US labs

#45

Post by Mountain_Skies » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:34 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #33

stronglikedan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America is finished if this is the best we got. Thank goodness NYC isn't America, or even the best America's got.

The cities that can lay claim to being the greatest city in the world without getting laughed out of the room can - unless I'm missing a few - be counted on one hand. I wonder what other cities in the United States you believe qualify.

Most communities don't aspire to be the "greatest city in the world", especially given the criteria upon which NYC would win such a contest. Most people are more interested in living a peaceful secure life than having the prestige of hosting Wall Street or having the most fusion restaurants per square mile. The best cover ever put out by the New Yorker was on the March 29, 1976 issue that showed just how myopic the city can be in regards to the rest of the world.

Re: Thousands of coronavirus tests are going unused in US labs

#46

Post by agumonkey » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:37 PM UTC

kingkawn wrote: post #2

I live in nyc and have a brother who lives in Vietnam. When a person in my brother’s building tested positive for the coronavirus the government quarantined the building, tested every single person who lives and works there, stationed police outside to enforce the lockdown, and delivered food for two weeks. If someone had tested positive they would be relocated to a hospital facility for treatment. When the tests for…

In France it's slightly better but not smart in any sense.

It's as if the heavy infrastructure and "modern" tech blinded the common sense..

Re: Thousands of coronavirus tests are going unused in US labs

#47

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:38 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #40

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe there's a way to solve this without eliminating civil liberties Maybe, but I've yet to see any plausible proposals. Do you have one?

I can't demonstrate that I have the right proposal, but I can demonstrate that one's imagination can run beyond what's presently being considered. Since we're talking about liberty, let's start with he Libertarian canned talking point: "liability and torts." Making individual people liable for spreading the virus would only really work with our imperfect court system for knowing super-spreaders and corporations with…

> It's possible that if you pursued corporations and a small number of individual defectors with the liability system and asked normal people nicely, you would be able to handle it.

So, this doesn't seem like an approach that has a materially different desired effect from what we're already doing. The policy's goal is to achieve temporary shutdown of businesses and prevent transmission of the virus. You're just using a more convoluted, less effective route to get there. As an added drawback, limited liability almost guarantees that many companies would cease respecting the rules (since their value will be zero if they respect the rules, due to bankruptcy, it costs nothing to go about business as usual and just shut down if you get unlucky).

I guess what I was asking was whether you have any ideas that have any likelihood of being more effective than current approaches. I can think of dozens of things that would be less effective than what we are currently doing. That doesn't really help us very much, though.

Re: Thousands of coronavirus tests are going unused in US labs

#48

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:38 PM UTC

scottlocklin wrote: post #44

ceejayoz wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point: Comparing annual flu deaths when we don't shut down the whole world to COVID-19 deaths when we do (especially to make the claim they're similarly dangerous) is insane. If 100 people drown in lakes, that's not really odd. If 100 people drown in the middle of the Sahara a thousand miles from the nearest water, that's weird.

Looked to me like he was comparing flu deaths now to corona deaths now. If indeed those numbers are comparable or the same, we've probably made a terrible mistake. Maybe looking at total pneumonia deaths for anomalies is the right thing to do?

> If indeed those numbers are comparable or the same, we've probably made a terrible mistake.

No, probably not. The seasonal flu infects a billion people a year, and still doesn't do things like collapse Italy's healthcare system.

Re: Thousands of coronavirus tests are going unused in US labs

#49

Post by justin66 » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:41 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #39

justin66 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cities that can lay claim to being the greatest city in the world without getting laughed out of the room can - unless I'm missing a few - be counted on one hand. I wonder what other cities in the United States you believe qualify.

I dunno, I liked living in Tucson, AZ better than New York. Yes NYC has a unique grandeur but different people like different things; it’s silly to think one city is better than another on some objective scale. (That said, I don’t endorse GP’s flippant dismissal of NYC either.)

> it’s silly to think one city is better than another on some objective scale

I think very old, classic measures like economic activity, the number of great works of art that come out of a place, the influence of a city on its surrounding region and its world, and the progress toward better public health and safety measures (highly relevant here) are a lot more quantifiable than one might at first believe.

Re: Thousands of coronavirus tests are going unused in US labs

#50

Post by scottlocklin » Fri, Apr 10, 2020, 1:44 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #48

scottlocklin wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looked to me like he was comparing flu deaths now to corona deaths now. If indeed those numbers are comparable or the same, we've probably made a terrible mistake. Maybe looking at total pneumonia deaths for anomalies is the right thing to do?

> If indeed those numbers are comparable or the same, we've probably made a terrible mistake. No, probably not. The seasonal flu infects a billion people a year, and still doesn't do things like collapse Italy's healthcare system.

You're changing the subject: if indeed the number of deaths from flu and covid are the same, during a quarantine, we have made a terrible mistake. I have no idea if they are the same. Do you?