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New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

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Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#41
post #13

I used to work on mainframe COBOL during the Y2K times. While the language is easy to pick up and the OS specific things are not too hard, the style of programming can lead to issues. Typically, shared data structures are often stored in separate files called copybooks and they can be hard to track down. Most of the code is not in any source control repositories which means no one knows which is the actual deployed v…

That's not an issue with "style of programming", it's just complete disregard of software engineering basics.

Did software engineering exist back then.

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, and I don't imagine there's any tests written for a lot of these systems. :(

There are plenty of tests written for them. They are just manual tests written up on literal, actual TPS reports (TPS = Test Procedure Specification) to be executed by humans.

My god. Are you serious? TPS reports are real?

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#44
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easier said than done. UI is mostly federally funded so they need to coordinate with them, and the complexity of the business rules and minimal funding during good times makes it a difficult task. Also these systems generally work well, and it’s hard to fix things that aren’t broken. They just cannot handle the never before seen volume — it’s unlikely that a more modern enterprise system would either.

>>it’s unlikely that a more modern enterprise system would either. sorry but that is just false. a Properly designed modern system would handle horizontal scaling just fine. Granted the government would likely pay a billion dollars to have a screwed up system developed by on of the "big guys" that has the same problems as they current system, most likely because it would be designed by committee and not by engineers.…

Many things are possible. But a core premise of government procurement is that you award to the cheapest vendor that minimally meets the mandatory requirements. Nobody would deliver a system that would just work with a claim load exponentially higher than the Great Depression.

If New Jersey landed a replacement UI system in 2010, it would be some sort of J2EE monstrosity on some outdated Websphere/JBoss/BEA/Oracle platform probably still dependent on some mainframe component.

The desperation for COBOL people is almost certainly because the (very complex) business rules are embedded in code that has been evolving for decades. Just changing anything is hard because it is a security nightmare (touches tax data, social security, dmv, and more) and regulated by all sorts of security/compliance frameworks that are difficult to implement and sometimes conflicting!

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#45

I was sort of tempted to pursue this. I did a few years in the salty COBOL mines back when I was a PFY about 20...plus years ago. This niche probably hasn't moved very much since then and I could probably recall most of it after a few hours. I'm freelancing right now anyway and some other projects just vaporized. But. A quick skim of the postings is finding that what they're really screaming for is somebody who's bee…

Or they, like many non-technical organizations, have no idea how to hire programmers. Could be worth a shot; even at regular companies they often over-state resume requirements.

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#46
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any way to learn the ecosystem? Last time I looked, you couldn’t just spin up z/OS in VMware and start hacking, which made it hard for me to figure out how I’d actually learn.

apt search cobol found this. open-cobol/bionic 1.1-2 amd64 COBOL compiler Also, I was hoping to find COBOL on learnxinyminutes.com, but didn't :/

Open-cobol works, but be aware that it translates your source to C and then compiles that. If that doesn't matter to you, great!

There's also tiny-cobol[0], but the project is dead and it only targets x86-32.

[0] http://tiny-cobol.sourceforge.net/

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#47

Yet I’m sure they’re offering $60K/year.

I whole heartedly agree. The problem with government tech positions is they are not even competitive. Instead of hiring three mediocre or less than mediocre engineers at $60k, why not hire an amazing $150k - $180k engineer? I’m pretty sure they have ceilings on positions just so people don’t get outraged at government salaries, but incidents and times like these prove government needs to be competitive with private b…

> Instead of hiring three mediocre or less than mediocre engineers at $60k, why not hire an amazing $150k - $180k engineer?

In many cases, it's literally not legal for them to do so.

For example, at the Federal level: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Schedule_(US_civil_ser...

(These restrictions don't tend to apply to hiring one via a contractor at $250-500k/year, though. Sigh.)

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#48

I was sort of tempted to pursue this. I did a few years in the salty COBOL mines back when I was a PFY about 20...plus years ago. This niche probably hasn't moved very much since then and I could probably recall most of it after a few hours. I'm freelancing right now anyway and some other projects just vaporized. But. A quick skim of the postings is finding that what they're really screaming for is somebody who's bee…

Just apply. There is no penalty for applying. If you want work, they definitely will at least talk to you.

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#49
post #4

How hard is cobol to pick up and learn at the level needed to contribute? I'm sure there are many no longer employed programmers in the tri state area that might be able to help

Here's a taste: https://qntm.org/zomg

>System z is a living fossil; it is computing archaeology; computing palaeontology. System z is an example of the principle "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" carried to its logical extreme. System z and its predecessors haven't broken for forty-five years: the "z" stands for "zero downtime" and some of these machines have been running continuously for decades without a reboot. Nor, therefore, have any of them ever been "fixed".

>It uses EBCDIC, a character encoding wholly incompatible with ASCII featuring such delights as non-contiguous letter sequences. It was, from 1983 to 2000, a 31-bit operating system. (Yes, thirty-one.) It does things with virtualisation of system resources and operating systems themselves that were thirty years ahead of their time, but all the interaction with z machines is still performed through an archaic green screen system from the 1970s, running in an emulator, with a 24x80 character screen. The screen is 80 characters wide because that is how many characters you could fit on a punch card.

>The output from the Job Entry System, however, is 132 characters wide, because that was how many characters you could fit on the line printer where the output came out. Nowadays, of course, the output comes to the green screen. So you always have to scroll left and right to see all of it. The keys for scrolling left and right are F7 and F8. For scrolling up and down? F10 and F11. No, Page Up and Page Down will do nothing.

>To enter a command? You hit the right Ctrl key. "Return" will do nothing. "Enter" will work, of course, but, AS YOU KNOW, "Return" and "Enter" are separate keys on your keyboard. "Return" is just above the right Shift key. "Enter" is way over next to the numeric keypad.

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#50
post #15

The point at which the government should have rewritten their COBOL systems into a language that would have a talent pool to draw from was at least 30 years ago.

There's a claim in one of the reply threads that they contracted HP to build a replacement years ago, but the project didn't succeed: https://twitter.com/tradel/status/1246526465207869440

Needs a design-build contract, like the Highway 99 tunnel in Seattle. You get one set of money and only if it works in the end. No change orders or cost plus.
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