Money Horror • Hacker News Board

Re: Money Horror

#41

Post by Pt_ » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 4:08 PM UTC

Would it be correct to assume the vending machine only accepts credit as it likely doesn't have a direct connection to a banking system to authorize the payments at time of purchase?

I seem to remember credit being a requirement for making purchases on planes for this same reason.

I'm curious because I live in the UK and pretty much all terminals here accept debit cards, although I think the UK in general has been a bit ahead in terms of payment standards (chip & pin, contactless etc.)

Re: Money Horror

#42

Post by pwinnski » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 4:08 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #22

oltdaniel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, that there are so many different standards that allow you to pay with one thing everywhere. And I personally need to pay a fee for a credit card, which is the usual case in the EU. And there are not many uses cases or advantages I have for a credit card over a free debit card. The thing is just, that I want to point out in the article, that the systems we have all want to solve this but always fail. Its…

Well, not in the US, so maybe the solution then is to just do what we do. I have never had any of your problems, at any merchant, anywhere, in the US.

Agreed, this is simply not an issue in the US.

Our banking system here is backwards in many ways, but the rigamarole described here just doesn't happen. US companies are much better about separating people from their money efficiently, I guess.

Re: Money Horror

#43

Post by NikolaeVarius » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

fenwick67 wrote: post #21

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #10

To be honest, I always kind of lol at these kinds of rants. Wishing for the "one true payment system" is like thinking that everyone will switch over to speaking Esperanto in the near future. NEVER going to happen. Also, many of his gripes seem ridiculous. I don't know if the situation is different in Europe, but in the US I think pretty much everyone should have a credit card. You can use a secured card if you have…

Many people have aversion to actual credit cards because most middle-to-lower-class families have stories of family members going into financial ruin, exacerbated by or ending with credit card debt. "Just be responsible with your credit cards" is an easy mantra to live by if you are financially privileged.

> most middle-to-lower-class families

Citation needed

Re: Money Horror

#44

Post by pwinnski » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

djmobley wrote: post #27

Legogris wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if there's anywhere else outside the US where "building your credit rating" by accumulating debt history from e.g. credit cards is a thing and makes a difference. I haven't heard it mentioned as a US-specific thing, but I've also only ever heard Americans talk about it.

In the UK it is absolutely a thing. Why would it not be a thing?

The cost of rigorous consumer protections is sometimes monetary.

I have this discussion with European friends regularly: No, I don't automatically get a three-year warranty on everything I buy. I don't even want such a thing, sometimes. And in return I pay much less for everyday items.

Re: Money Horror

#45

Post by grecy » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

I feel his pain.

I emigrated to Canada from Australia, and it was exceptionally hard for me to get a credit card. Apparently no credit rating is the same as the very worst credit rating. It also took time to get paperwork like a drivers license and SIN number (a bit like an SSN), and without those there was no chance. I had to go a few years without one, and the number of things I couldn't do without one was immensely frustrating.

Visa debit sounds great, but I find it doesn't work for a ton of transactions that want a credit card.

In the end I had to put $1000 into a special locked-in account that I couldn't touch before the bank would issue me a $1000 credit card.

Re: Money Horror

#46

Post by pdonis » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

Kique wrote: post #37

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You feel the need to take out a short-term loan for your soda purchase? The fact that a debit card isn't considered as good as (and further, that it's not assumed to be better than) a credit card is yet another bit of money horror.

A short term loan that will be 0% interest if you pay the full balance every month? In exchange for greater security and in most cases points/miles? Credit cards aren't for everyone, but if you can pay the full balance every month then there's no reason to not use one.

> if you can pay the full balance every month then there's no reason to not use one

And if the alternative is using a debit card, then by definition you can pay the full balance every month, because the money has to be there in your bank account before you can spend it with the debit card anyway. It's the same money either way, the only difference is whether it comes out of your bank account in little increments over the month or in one big chunk when you pay your monthly bill.

Re: Money Horror

#47

Post by Pt_ » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #26

rsync wrote: post #3

"Yes transactions are paused on the weekend. Thats like google would do a break on the weekend." This is correct. The correct response to payment and settlement "pauses" for silly things like weekends and holidays is derision. Contempt. Ridicule. These settlement timelines are based literally on horse and buggy schedules from the 1800s. They have no place in our modern workflow.

I feel like there's an argument to be made for having an actual human monitoring large transactions. If you're trying to take out a $600,000 mortgage at 3 AM on a Sunday, that probably shouldn't go through, or at the very least have some human verification. Humans tend to work 9-5 Monday to Friday

Surely anomaly detection is better done by a machine?

I guess there's a certain level of human "intuition" about these things but is this not what most banks anti-fraud systems do already?

Re: Money Horror

#48

Post by stiray » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

There is just one thing, that he has forgot about it. He feeds a huge survailance capitalism machine with his data. The horror is not where he envisions, the horror is in, f.i. google tracking all his expenses.

Not that they know who are your contacts (android contacts synced, gmail contacts, images uploaded,...), where you surf (googletags, google analytics), what you search (google search), what software you use (google play, google spyware framework,...), now they also know where you spend your money.

Now this is real horror.

Re: Money Horror

#49

Post by throwanem » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

I like the optimism of imagining, in April of 2020, that the mild inconveniences of various payment systems will continue to qualify as "money horror"!

Re: Money Horror

#50

Post by d1zzy » Fri, Apr 03, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #29

chkaloon wrote: post #19

"Only with a credit card. I am a student, I have no real world use for this kind of card" Yes you do, that vending machine you're standing in front of

You feel the need to take out a short-term loan for your soda purchase? The fact that a debit card isn't considered as good as (and further, that it's not assumed to be better than) a credit card is yet another bit of money horror.

Well, the other credit building options are much less accessible: mortgage, car, personal, etc loans. I would say credit card loans are the easiest/most accessible to individuals to start building their credit.