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What is the engineering hiring bar?

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#41
> 4:00pm – 7:00pm Dinner with wife & friends

Do people really eat dinner at this time on the weekend? What about on weekdays; you have 30 mins to 'hang out with wife' then it's meditation and algorithm practice till bed time? A little depressing.

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#42

The article could be a_lot_ more concise. Here’s what I got out of it as the takeaway: > And that helps us understand why Recursive Cactus spends so much time practicing. He’s training himself partially because his current company isn’t developing his skills. Exactly. Recursive Calculus wants a better job, (a lot) higher pay, a better environment. So he spends time prepping for this. And companies who can offer all o…

It seems like a lot of these discussions end up being something along the lines of "the standards are bad because they exclude me, therefore there shouldn't be any standards at all" (just with a lot more words).

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#43
Apologies in advance for being harsh, but are you a member in order of your state association of engineers, did you pass the FE exam?, was your school accredited to grant engineering diplomas?

If the answer is not, please do not call yourself engineer

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#44

Holy cow, is Recursive Cactus me? Lol I can totally relate. And I believe a lot of people on cscareerquestions subreddit and people at Leetcode forum can relate. 100%? Accurate. Also, just to give a context of the hiring bar these days. The FAANG companies coding question is no longer on Easy even on phone interview. Expect at minimum 2 Medium difficulty questions in a phone interview that need to be able to be solve…

I was agreeing with you until you used the phrase "diversity hire" in your comment. I think that you could have made the same point without inferring that the hiring bar has been lowered for employees in underrepresented groups. That's a pretty terrible thing to say to anyone who is in one of those groups.

But it undeniably has, and I've had multiple older women in management express to me that they felt their position was less respected because of the company's overt push to hire women.

Sure, in theory we're correcting the injustices brought about by inequality, but what we're really doing is presuming that minorities need extra help and white men do not, without considering that all people have struggles and, frankly, it's racist/sexist to judge people by skin color and/or gender.

You can easily invent a dozen ways to claim someone's life is underprivileged, but we only have a handful that are allowed in hiring considerations, and they all happen to be "not white or male."

It's terrifying to see how casually acceptable this has become.

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was agreeing with you until you used the phrase "diversity hire" in your comment. I think that you could have made the same point without inferring that the hiring bar has been lowered for employees in underrepresented groups. That's a pretty terrible thing to say to anyone who is in one of those groups.

It is my anecdata, and take it as what it is. I've seen it myself a few times. Take it as what it is, downvote it all you want. A freedom of speech for everyone.

After reading this comment, I get the sneaking suspicion that your definition of "diversity hire" means hiring any minority or female candidates, period.

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech interview process is just so badly messed up. Even if the process were a reasonable proxy for IQ (it's not), or correlated somewhat with use of actual required technical skills (it doesn't), it still almost entirely ignores the EQ (emotional intelligence) and CQ (cultural intelligence) factors which comprise the other 2 legs of the "good hire" stool.

>Even if the process were a reasonable proxy for IQ (it's not), or correlated somewhat with use of actual required technical skills (it doesn't) I wouldn't be so quick to presume that FAANG IQs aren't above average. >the EQ (emotional intelligence) and CQ (cultural intelligence) factors which comprise the other 2 legs of the "good hire" stool EQ may be difficult to measure but the spoken part of the interview should…

One answer to your last: people aren't going to leave their permanent job for one that has a risk of being temporary.

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#47

The article could be a_lot_ more concise. Here’s what I got out of it as the takeaway: > And that helps us understand why Recursive Cactus spends so much time practicing. He’s training himself partially because his current company isn’t developing his skills. Exactly. Recursive Calculus wants a better job, (a lot) higher pay, a better environment. So he spends time prepping for this. And companies who can offer all o…

Those companies probably also value attention to detail and would realise that our hero is called Recursive Cactus, not Calculus ;)

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#48
post #35

Holy cow, is Recursive Cactus me? Lol I can totally relate. And I believe a lot of people on cscareerquestions subreddit and people at Leetcode forum can relate. 100%? Accurate. Also, just to give a context of the hiring bar these days. The FAANG companies coding question is no longer on Easy even on phone interview. Expect at minimum 2 Medium difficulty questions in a phone interview that need to be able to be solve…

>So for those FAANG engineers that were able to get in early, whether by acquihire, by diversity hire, by luck, by normal hire Can we please stop assuming that being a minority or woman is some kind of hiring free pass? It's often quite the opposite. But more to your point, I've been cynically wondering if the untenably high bar set for technical interviews serves as an industry-wide means of lowering turnover. Also…

I'm not assuming. I'm just describing my experiences and what I've seen with my own eyes, a few times. Take it as what it is. Btw I don't assume that women are strictly diversity hires. Nowhere I said that in my statement. There are many many amazing smart women everywhere, even CS professors that I respected during my education are women. I'm just saying that diversity hire exists, that's all.

That is definitely one possibility. If you have studied a lot to get into an X companies and now you also need a lot of luck to get in, then it will deter you from quitting.

So basically, for example, two questions, Leetcode Medium difficulty, there are a few solutions. One can be done in O(n^2) the other one can be done in O(n) (non trivial algorithm). You need to code the O(n) algorithm to pass. You also need to be able to do it in under 20 mins each (total 40 mins, 5 mins for questions to the interviewer and introduction).

Sometimes the non trivial algorithm is an algorithm that you don't know, which in fact, was founded by some famous CS scientist. So in order to do that, you need to have studied that algorithm yourself and apply it during the interview. For example, Robin Karp algorithm, Knuth Morris Pratt algorithm, Djikstra algorithm.

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#49

Holy cow, is Recursive Cactus me? Lol I can totally relate. And I believe a lot of people on cscareerquestions subreddit and people at Leetcode forum can relate. 100%? Accurate. Also, just to give a context of the hiring bar these days. The FAANG companies coding question is no longer on Easy even on phone interview. Expect at minimum 2 Medium difficulty questions in a phone interview that need to be able to be solve…

> Expect at minimum 2 Medium difficulty questions in a phone interview that need to be able to be solved in optimal space time complexity in under 45 mins

I see this being repeated on Leetcode and Blind, but it is not my experience at all.

In 2019, I got Senior level (L5/E5) offers from everywhere I applied, including Facebook and Google. I never solved more than a single medium problem in 45m-1h. I was asked a hard problem maybe twice, and not at FB & G.

I also interviewed 100+ candidates at Microsoft and Google. I have seen hundreds of interview questions and feedback reports and I simply can't corroborate that statement.

Re: What is the engineering hiring bar?

#50
post #8
post #4

this is fine, so long as you're looking to get hired by a megacorp (fine,faang.) but for most people theres a point of diminishing returns. Do you want to spend six months to a year out of your life drilling for a $10k raise working for a company that works you like a rented mule anyhow, or do you settle with your present quality of life and conclude 70k is enough to do whatever you wanted to reasonably do anyway. Th…

> Are you patient enough to sit through questions like "how many kegs of beer on a schoolbus" and "how to build a datacenter on the moon" from some grinning techbro only to be told youre re-invited to another round of interviews? I systematically end all interviews when they've reached this point. As soon as the smart-ass finishes their stupid question I just say "I think we're done here". I can stomach take homes, e…

Does this actually happen? I thought these "get out of the blender" and "why are manholes round" puzzles were the waterfall of hiring.

They were written about because they were so bad, everybody agreed they are horrible and they weren't that popular to begin with.

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