Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard) • Hacker News Board

Re: Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard)

#41

Post by ardy42 » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

saturday14 wrote: post #14

ardy42 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if this will lead to people in the west wearing surgical masks during flu season like people do in Asia. Normalizing masks will also help fight facial recognition. IIRC, the Chinese systems have trouble with people who are wearing a surgical mask and sunglasses. No attention-grabbing dazzle makeup required.

Until the government bans masks in public places in the interest of, you know "public safety" once the covid-19 crisis blows over. It sucks that we even need to think about wearing masks to escape facial recognition.

> Until the government bans masks in public places in the interest of, you know "public safety" once the covid-19 crisis blows over.

That's overly fatalistic. China hasn't banned them for that reason, and they're way more interested in that rationale than any government you're likely talking about.

> It sucks that we even need to think about wearing masks to escape facial recognition.

Avoiding facial recognition isn't just about avoiding the government facial recognition.

Re: Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard)

#42

Post by pmoriarty » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

brenden2 wrote: post #24

Is there any real evidence that masks provide any value for healthy people (excluding health care workers)? All I've seen are anecdotes from internet armchair experts.

"Most cases of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) have occurred in close contacts of SARS patients. However, in Beijing, a large proportion of SARS cases occurred in persons without such contact. We conducted a case-control study in Beijing that compared exposures of 94 unlinked, probable SARS patients with those of 281 community-based controls matched for age group and sex. Case-patients were more likely than controls to have chronic medical conditions or to have visited fever clinics (clinics at which possible SARS patients were separated from other patients), eaten outside the home, or taken taxis frequently. The use of masks was strongly protective. Among 31 case-patients for whom convalescent-phase (>21 days) sera were available, 26% had immunoglobulin G to SARS-associated coronavirus. Our finding that clinical SARS was associated with visits to fever clinics supports Beijing's strategy of closing clinics with poor infection-control measures. Our finding that mask use lowered the risk for disease supports the community's use of this strategy."

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/10/2/03-0730_article

Re: Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard)

#43

Post by fieryscribe » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

kareemm wrote: post #27

I feel like there's a good business here. Like T-shirts, I can see masks becoming another form of self-expression e.g. branded masks, funny slogans, etc.

This has already happened in HK, as Hong Kongers use masks to protect their identity and to express themselves during the protests

Re: Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard)

#44

Post by thomascgalvin » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

saturday14 wrote: post #14

ardy42 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if this will lead to people in the west wearing surgical masks during flu season like people do in Asia. Normalizing masks will also help fight facial recognition. IIRC, the Chinese systems have trouble with people who are wearing a surgical mask and sunglasses. No attention-grabbing dazzle makeup required.

Until the government bans masks in public places in the interest of, you know "public safety" once the covid-19 crisis blows over. It sucks that we even need to think about wearing masks to escape facial recognition.

Wearing a mask in public is already illegal in many places[1].

It's been illegal in New York since 1845, due to some kind of violent conflict between landlords and tenant farmers. Some laws were targeted at the KKK, and newer laws were targeted at Occupy and Anonymous folks wearing Guy Fawkes masks.

This article[2] has a more complete list of state laws against masks, and where they've been overturned.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law#United_States

[2] https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-states-where-prote...

Re: Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard)

#45

Post by lostphilosopher » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 1:31 PM UTC

brenden2 wrote: post #24

Is there any real evidence that masks provide any value for healthy people (excluding health care workers)? All I've seen are anecdotes from internet armchair experts.

Scientific papers studying and summarizing the utility of masks, from the article: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4p...

I think part of the issue in this case is that no one knows if they are "healthy." You could be transmitting the disease while still asymptomatic yourself.

Re: Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard)

#46

Post by chasd00 » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 1:31 PM UTC

kareemm wrote: post #27

I feel like there's a good business here. Like T-shirts, I can see masks becoming another form of self-expression e.g. branded masks, funny slogans, etc.

that's an interesting idea! I've seen personalized welding masks. You'd have to make sure it doesn't interfere with the functioning of the mask. Just producing them in different colors would be a start.

Re: Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard)

#47

Post by zamadatix » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 1:31 PM UTC

brenden2 wrote: post #24

Is there any real evidence that masks provide any value for healthy people (excluding health care workers)? All I've seen are anecdotes from internet armchair experts.

I don't see what a persons profession has to do with whether or not a mask protects against a virus or not? The difference is exposure not efficacy of the tool.

Re: Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard)

#48

Post by dragontamer » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 1:32 PM UTC

brenden2 wrote: post #24

Is there any real evidence that masks provide any value for healthy people (excluding health care workers)? All I've seen are anecdotes from internet armchair experts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3373043/

Re: Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard)

#49

Post by leviathant » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 1:32 PM UTC

billfruit wrote: post #37

WHO still recommend not wearing mask, unless you are infected or caring for an infected person.

If symptoms don't show up for days, how do you know you're not infected?

Re: Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard)

#50

Post by friendcrunch » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 1:32 PM UTC

IgorPartola wrote: post #20

TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's stupid. N95 masks are in short supply and so should be reserved for healthcare workers and those caring for the infected but sugical masks can still help slow the spread. People should be weraring those in public. But the only messaging from the top is not to wear the masks

There seems to be evidence that masks can make your exposure worse by trapping some amount of air containing the virus under the mask, making you more exposed. If you are sick they can protect others around you, but if you are healthy, less so. In that context the flip of public opinion makes some sense: as we go from assuming most people are healthy to assuming most people are sick, masks for everyone in public can…

There is evidence of efficacy in wearing even simple facemasks. Skepticism will lead your imagination to walk in circles [continuing without said mask].