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Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

appleinsider.com

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Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#41

Post by rubyn00bie »

Yep, the real give away was the A12Z. It isn't shit all faster than the A12X with the exception of the added GPU core.

The A12X was so fast when it came out, reviewers were like "holy shit, this is nearly as fast or faster as comparable x86 laptop," and that was what... two years ago?

Apple's ARM processors are likely _so fucking fast_ that they'd absolutely be showing their hand if they put one in a tablet right now. Reviewers would probably be like "uhh this is faster than a 13" macbook pro and it's a fucking tablet?!" Not to mention, that'd be the nail in the coffin for a good (for Apple) relationship with Intel until they're totally ready to transition.

My guess is Apple is probably just not "quite" there yet for it's highest-end products or we'd see them this year. It's pretty lucky for them their custom silicon to-date has been so far ahead of everyone else or (appearing to be) sitting on their asses for a year or so might hurt.

TSMC is already capable of taking a shit on Intel (Ryzen 3000) and Apple is obviously capable of making very fast custom CPUs. It's a pretty dangerous combo if you're Intel right now and already getting hammered by AMD.

For me, the real question, and pipe dream, will Apple partner with AMD during the transition and perhaps make some some hybrid AMD x86/Apple ARM machines since they're both being built by TSMC?

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#42

Post by Traster »

To be honest, I am super unexcited by this. What I want to see from Apple is a move back to high software quality, high hardware quality and real vision for their products. At the moment their convergence between iPad and Macbook has essentially been to add sub-par versions of macbook features to the iPad and to make the macbook a second class citizen in terms of quality.

My big worry is that actually this is just acting as cover for deep underlying issues in a lack of real vision for how the iPad can become a real replacement for laptops and no vision at all for the desktop line. How crazy is it that Apple is pumping out products that re-implement Microsoft features from 5 years ago (after spending 5 years mocking Microsoft).

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#43

Post by clairity »

ttul wrote: post #28
thought_alarm wrote: post #19

Always a year away. I remain deeply sceptical that Apple will move the Mac to ARM, and given their bungling of the MacBook lineup over the last 5 years I have doubts they understand what their users need from a laptop. I don't think they could pull it off without a great deal of pain for their users and developers. I don't think their OS engineers need the burden.

They’ll do it on a select model or two. By passing on some of the cost savings to purchasers, they will drag the market along with them as they gradually replace Intel. I would guess that they target the MacBook Air first, because there are likely large power-performance benefits in that form factor. They will build multiple processor targeting into the default build process in Xcode and will invest a great deal of e…

yes, and in addition, the ipad pro is being developed into a viable low- to mid-tier option that's even more mobile (for video, AR/VR, and whatnot). a perusal of geekbench shows that ARM is performance/efficiency competitive already.

but the transition will likely be more gradual (for instance, replacement times for computers are longer now), so x86 macs should stay around for a long while i think.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#44

Post by wyre »

What does this mean for software companies whose consumer base is largely on OSX? Will Adobe, Sony, Avid, etc have to port their library of software over to Apple's new ARM architecture?

Will this allow for greater freedom with ARM devices not running new OSX?

It seems like Apple lately has very much internalized 'if you build it, they will come' even though it seems like it is heavily alienating their professional user base.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#45

Post by oefrha »

unlinked_dll wrote: post #23
raverbashing wrote: post #7

Still to be confirmed, I don't usually take "analyst predictions" too seriously but I found this interesting: "Apple will no longer be held to the whims of Intel" Apple switched to Intel because IBM couldn't ship a good enough G5 for notebooks and for scale issues. Given that Intel is not on track with 7nm and rumours of their CEO being seen in Taiwan the other day it seems history is repeating itself.

I mean if it's just about performance, why switch architectures instead of using AMD chips?

Alan Kay: “People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.”

Apple: People who are really serious about hardware make their own processors.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#46

Post by _ph_ »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #41

Yep, the real give away was the A12Z. It isn't shit all faster than the A12X with the exception of the added GPU core. The A12X was so fast when it came out, reviewers were like "holy shit, this is nearly as fast or faster as comparable x86 laptop," and that was what... two years ago? Apple's ARM processors are likely _so fucking fast_ that they'd absolutely be showing their hand if they put one in a tablet right now…

For me, the real question, and pipe dream, will Apple partner with AMD during the transition and perhaps make some some hybrid AMD x86/Apple ARM machines since they're both being built by TSMC?

There is an interesting thought. Apple could embed one AMD-chiplet with up to 8 cores into their designs, where Apple provides the ARM-CPUs as well as the io-hardware the chiplets require. This would retain the ability to run x86-code, while the system would use the ARM-hardware for most task.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#47

Post by mikhailt »

sudosysgen wrote: post #16
phoobahr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21033371

That's Geekbench. The differences in Geekbench for ARM devices and Geekbench for x86 are laughable. Why not compare them in a real life workload like a render on Blender or a kernel compile?

People have (Jonathan Morrison for an example) , the 4k exports from iMovie or other video/image editor has been proven to be vastly faster on iPad Pro than the fastest Macbook Pro.

Intel CPUs are not customized by Apple for their own APIs, they're for general purpose use. yes, they have ISA extensions that Apple could use like QuickSync but it's not enough for Apple.

Apple customize their A series with the same APIs they use, such as Metal, CoreFoundation, Javascript Core (they have hardware-based JS acceleration support), etc.

It's why they added T2 chips to their Macs to help accelerate a lot of tasks like disk encryption, more locked down security with TouchID and so on.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#48

Post by specialist »

chongli wrote: post #35
thought_alarm wrote: post #19

Always a year away. I remain deeply sceptical that Apple will move the Mac to ARM, and given their bungling of the MacBook lineup over the last 5 years I have doubts they understand what their users need from a laptop. I don't think they could pull it off without a great deal of pain for their users and developers. I don't think their OS engineers need the burden.

given their bungling of the MacBook lineup over the last 5 years Wouldn't this stand as a reason to not be skeptical of the big move? Switching to ARM (badly) and breaking everything seems like it'd be exactly in line with all of this bungling. I ordered a new MacBook Air just over a week ago, right when it was announced. If it turns out to be the last Intel-based MBA before years of pain and suffering with the ARM t…

I timed my purchase of my last PowerBook G4 (the last PowerPC-based model) based on similar thinking.

IIRC, It took a while for all the "pro" tools I used to get refreshed for x86.

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#49

Post by flqn »

wyre wrote: post #44

What does this mean for software companies whose consumer base is largely on OSX? Will Adobe, Sony, Avid, etc have to port their library of software over to Apple's new ARM architecture? Will this allow for greater freedom with ARM devices not running new OSX? It seems like Apple lately has very much internalized 'if you build it, they will come' even though it seems like it is heavily alienating their professional u…

I'm wondering if they'll have some solution similar to Rosetta

Re: Apple to debut multiple ARM MacBook, desktop models in 2021

#50

Post by fit2rule »

I'd be completely fine with a switch to ARM, as long as it was handled in the same way that the switch to x86 was done - with a period of fat binaries targeting both architectures, and then a gradual phase-out of the older architecture (x86).

I'm pretty sure Apple have the ability to put 32-core ARM systems into the MacBook, and push the power/processing ratio into the stratosphere. The only reason I'm not using ARM right now, personally, is because such a thing doesn't really exist .. but I look at my old Touchbook up on the shelf and wonder what could have been...

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