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Covid-19: Landlords will kill our economy

smartcompany.com.au

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Re: Covid-19: Landlords will kill our economy

#41

Post by dang »

cutler wrote: post #15
Veen wrote: post #4

> Ban rent for COVID-19-affected businesses Landlords have mortgages and a host of other associated costs. If this were made a policy in the UK, you'd have a huge number of small-time buy-to-let landlords going bankrupt and losing their nest-egg to the bank.

So what? Why should society provide security for the gamblers of the property free-for-all? They took the risk. Too bad if it goes bad. Try working for your income instead of trying to get something for nothing.

Can you please not post ideological flamewar comments to HN? They lead to ideological flamewars, which are predictable (therefore boring, therefore off-topic) and also nasty (therefore destructive, therefore against the site rules).

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Covid-19: Landlords will kill our economy

#42

Post by nybble41 »

kadonoishi wrote: post #19

So stop all payments. Nobody pays rent, landowners don’t pay their mortgages, banks don’t pay interest. Companies don’t pay dividends, bonds don’t pay interest. Just stop using money to organize productive activity for a few months until the coronavirus curve flattens. If all payments are stopped for three months, then it’s simply hitting the “Pause” button on the whole money system. There are no economic data for th…

And no one pays for goods either? I suppose it does make things simpler in the long run if everyone just starves. No need to worry about restarting the economy in three months, there won't be anyone left by then to care.

Money can freeze in place, but people still have needs which must be met in a timely manner and by freezing all monetary transactions you've thrown away the best means we have to organize the effort of satisfying those needs.

Re: Covid-19: Landlords will kill our economy

#43

Post by pornel »

Veen wrote: post #4

> Ban rent for COVID-19-affected businesses Landlords have mortgages and a host of other associated costs. If this were made a policy in the UK, you'd have a huge number of small-time buy-to-let landlords going bankrupt and losing their nest-egg to the bank.

It's a get-rich-quick scheme that has inflated house prices. These landlords aren't providing any value — they're literally rent-seeking.

Re: Covid-19: Landlords will kill our economy

#44

Post by nybble41 »

hellisothers wrote: post #37
Scoundreller wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who should the government punish? Everyone equally? The richest X%? The poorest X%? Particular industr[y,ies]? If everyone says “not us, somebody else!” there will be no redistribution.

The parent comment is proposing a system where nobody is punished, everything is deferred. Not all landlords are fat cats in a mansion, if you remove the flow of cash to only some people, those people will be crushed if they depend on that flow to send it further upstream.

Deferring payment without interest is punishment. Goods in the future are worth less than the same goods in the present.

Re: Covid-19: Landlords will kill our economy

#45

Post by NicoJuicy »

kadonoishi wrote: post #19

So stop all payments. Nobody pays rent, landowners don’t pay their mortgages, banks don’t pay interest. Companies don’t pay dividends, bonds don’t pay interest. Just stop using money to organize productive activity for a few months until the coronavirus curve flattens. If all payments are stopped for three months, then it’s simply hitting the “Pause” button on the whole money system. There are no economic data for th…

Not going to happen in the US.

Both Trump and KC properties ( his son in law) are landlords. There is a documentary on Netflix about it ( fyi: it's really bad)

And I'm pretty sure they are not "in the game" to make it better for the average American.

Edit: if downvote, please explain why. I'm 100% sure his self interest isn't seperate of his function. Additionally, the family involvement in the white House and Trump not seperating his business as previous presidents did, IS a perfect example to proof my point.

Nothing indicates the opposite.

Re: Covid-19: Landlords will kill our economy

#46

Post by robocat »

taleodor wrote: post #26
Scoundreller wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who should the government punish? Everyone equally? The richest X%? The poorest X%? Particular industr[y,ies]? If everyone says “not us, somebody else!” there will be no redistribution.

To me, under circumstances universal income may be the most sensible solution. Which would also largely avoid questions like this one (btw everyone still going to take a hit - no doubt about that, but at least it could be negotiated between parties then). Governments still need to figure out if they have enough resources though - it's a lot of work if one is willing to take it. Unfortunately, what I see instead here…

Do you own a business?

Why do you think universal income solves the problem of an entertainment company that is legally shutdown, has zero income, and can’t pay it’s bills?

At it’s core, aren’t you just suggesting we become communists (for a while?). Disclaimer: I am from what might be called a liberal socialist capitalist country (I might call myself a capitalist hippy).

Re: Covid-19: Landlords will kill our economy

#47

Post by ianlevesque »

appleiigs wrote: post #33

The article is dumb. If the statement "Landlords don’t employ anyone; their benefit to society is frankly pretty marginal" was true, why did the author willingly sign his rent or lease contract (which binds him to pay a large regular payments for a long period)... Why would he do it if there is no benefit!?

Because the landlord got there first and staked a claim to the parcel of land, that they then don't use themselves for anything except charging others for the privilege of using it. I mean you can see how it's not a super compelling arrangement even though landlords have made it impossible to avoid in desirable areas.

Re: Covid-19: Landlords will kill our economy

#48

Post by jlokier »

appleiigs wrote: post #33

The article is dumb. If the statement "Landlords don’t employ anyone; their benefit to society is frankly pretty marginal" was true, why did the author willingly sign his rent or lease contract (which binds him to pay a large regular payments for a long period)... Why would he do it if there is no benefit!?

The "benefit" obtained by rent is, mainly, permission.

When the authoer says landlords don't provide much benefit to society, I think they are comparing against a society in which landlords don't exist.

The author pays rent because they have no choice if they want permission to use a property; all available properties are owned by landlords.

(You can tell it's more about permission than service provided, because there are so many empty buildings, and many people would be delighted to be permitted to just go ahead and use them.)

In the alternative society where landlords don't exist, the author would not need to pay for permission. The "marginal" benefit is other things of value, such as making a nice place, and upkeep and repairs, which many landlords don't do much of.

Re: Covid-19: Landlords will kill our economy

#49

Post by Scoundreller »

nybble41 wrote: post #44
hellisothers wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent comment is proposing a system where nobody is punished, everything is deferred. Not all landlords are fat cats in a mansion, if you remove the flow of cash to only some people, those people will be crushed if they depend on that flow to send it further upstream.

Deferring payment without interest is punishment. Goods in the future are worth less than the same goods in the present.

And where's someone unemployed going to get 3 month's of rent if they only work in 0 or 1 of the next 3 months?

Re: Covid-19: Landlords will kill our economy

#50

Post by jlokier »

charonn0 wrote: post #27
drenginian wrote: post #7

I think most landlords are wealthy people who are easily placed to weather this financial crisis. By definition if you are wealthy enough to own property beyond one house then you’re wealthy enough to survive this. And if you can’t afford to, then sell it and suffer like all the other real business owners are suffering. Why should landlords be a protected species in all this?

Not all wealth is liquid. Not all wealth can be liquefied.

Equity release may provide that liquidity, if you can find a willing provider.
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