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Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

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Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#41

Post by justin66 »

nordsieck wrote: post #27
W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

> As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and…

That's honestly not much of a counterexample, since you're talking about a 260hp car. Good on him for doing as well as he did, but it seems unlikely he'd be physically able to handle a Formula 1 car at all.

The thing you have to remember is that it takes a demanding and specialized workout routine to get an experienced race car driver to the point where they can hold their head up through a turn in an F1 car. Some of the other demands put on a driver's body during a race are pretty crazy as well, particularly on a hot day.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#42

Post by lmilcin »

antientropic wrote: post #33
W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

On the contrary: there is probably no sport where the sim is so close to the real thing. Being good at FIFA 19 in no way will make you good at real football. But if you put a decent sim racer in a real race car, they are often able to put together a decent lap pretty quickly. See for instance some of Jimmy Broadbent's recent adventures in real-life racing. Conversely, real-life drivers tend to be good at simracing (e…

FIFA is a football simulator as much as Mortal Kombat is fighting simulator.

FIFA is a game.

The difference is simulator's main focus is reality, games' main focus is fun.

If FIFA was for reality it would be closer to first person QWOP than isometric view of half of field where you have perfect information and you press a key and your player does whatever trick the key was designated to perform.

The substance of the game is lost and only visuals are left.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#43

Post by tc313 »

nordsieck wrote: post #27
W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

> As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and…

There's no real control variable, though, so it's hard to tell how well he really did. But, of course, the simulation is something like the real thing and is better than no preparation at all.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#45

Post by michaelscott »

bborud wrote: post #37
W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

What separates some of the new generation racers from the old is that the new generation F1 racers are better at translating between sim and on-track. This was very clear with the Vettel/Hamilton generation, but even more so now. It isn’t so much a question of realism, but usefulness as preparation and working out a plan and a rythm.

Verstappen is probably the best example of this in F1. He is both a world class real world racer and a frequent online player as well. His reason for not joining the new virtual Grand Prix is that he apparently hasn't had a chance to get into the F1 2019 they're using for it.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#46

Post by tc313 »

p1necone wrote: post #5
tc313 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gamers are generally faster because the games are not perfect simulations of reality.

Sim accuracy could affect times either way (also some sims are pretty darn accurate). I suspect the biggest difference is the risk taking aspect. Sim drivers don't have to think about safety at all.

> Sim accuracy could affect times either way

I meant that pro sim racers are generally faster than pro drivers at sim racing, not that the simulation times are faster than the real times.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#47

Post by beetwenty »

W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

It's basically true of anything using physics. There are very good pinball simulations, and being reliable digital games they are actually a better, more fair competitive venue, but people who really play pinball still crave the real game because of all the analog parts of it, the nuance of pressing your weight down on the table and how that changes across different games, and how you adjust your play to the specific conditions as things wear down.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#48

Post by n4r9 »

tc313 wrote: post #43
nordsieck wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and…

There's no real control variable, though, so it's hard to tell how well he really did. But, of course, the simulation is something like the real thing and is better than no preparation at all.

Exactly. It could be that this guy was just born to be a real racing driver but never realised until too late, or just didn't want that career. And that a good racing driver is likely to be a good simulation player.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#49

Post by n4r9 »

antientropic wrote: post #33
W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

On the contrary: there is probably no sport where the sim is so close to the real thing. Being good at FIFA 19 in no way will make you good at real football. But if you put a decent sim racer in a real race car, they are often able to put together a decent lap pretty quickly. See for instance some of Jimmy Broadbent's recent adventures in real-life racing. Conversely, real-life drivers tend to be good at simracing (e…

To be fair there's quite a big difference: Lionel Messi is an individual footballer whilst in Fifa you have more control over the team strategy.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#50

Post by psh1295 »

roamerz wrote: post #19

This was an invitational. I suspect without any supporting evidence that they tried to keep this to to Nascar participants # 1 for the familiarity it brings the fans (Go Jr!) but also because I doubt a ‘real’ racer would have won the race had the best of the online only competition been allowed to complete. And after watching the race it was sadly just as good as a real race. They have become quite boring the last fe…

At a recent sim competition in Miami ("Miami's Fastest Gamer") in which various real-world drivers competed with sim racers, the top three spots were real-world drivers -- Juan Pablo Montoya, Ed Jones, and Eduardo Barrichello. However, the best sim racers can definitely hold their own (eg James Baldwin came in fourth) and perhaps some of this boiled down to experience more than anything else. Although there's definitely a lot of differences, the skills between e-racing and real-world racing seem somewhat more compatible with each other than other e-sports.

Reference: https://wtf1.com/post/juan-pablo-montoya-won-a-sim-racing-co... https://www.essentiallysports.com/f1-news-juan-pablo-montoya...

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