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'Pandemic ventilator' could offer solution in potential 'worst case' scenario

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Re: 'Pandemic ventilator' could offer solution in potential 'worst case' scenario

#41

Post by war1025 »

pmoleri wrote: post #33
tcbawo wrote: post #30

If you read enough news and Twitter, you will find some really heartbreaking descriptions of the folks on ventilators. For most, this is a Hail Mary attempt with only 50% survival rate. Many will have significant lung damage if they survive. We need more ventilators to be sure. But we desperately need to find ways to halt the progression of runaway lung inflammation that leads to needing a ventilator. Edit: this deve…

Interesting, so a little improvement there may lead to less ICU beds and sorter overall time at the hospital. Wonder if that's possible.

My understanding is that's the hope for Chloroquine and the other drugs being rolled out en-masse this week. They have shown enough promise by various limited trials that we are rolling them out nation-wide to see if they actually do help reduce the severity of the virus.

If they do, then less hospitalization, and less ICU / ventilator needs.

If Chloroquine doesn't end up working, basically we need to find something that does, because that is the only feasible way to get us out of this mess. We have shuttered the economy because the healthcare system can't handle so many people needing hospitalization. The only scalable way around that is to find a treatment that significantly lowers the need for hospitalization.

Re: 'Pandemic ventilator' could offer solution in potential 'worst case' scenario

#43

Post by FreeFull »

thornjm wrote: post #35
femto wrote: post #28

What about a "Both Respirator"? [1] In the 1930s polio epidemic there was a shortage of "iron lung" respirators, which were expensive to produce. Edward Both invented a plywood version, which was cheap and easy to produce. A re-purposed car factory then churned them out by the thousand. Is a negative pressure ventilator relevant for COVID-19 treatment? (Any knowledgeable medicos here who can offer a critique?) If so,…

Med student here - so I know some of the theory only. The most relevant "law" is Fick's Law of Diffusion ( https://d2jmvrsizmvf4x.cloudfront.net/CTU792sKR2evT2ezizQp_f... ). Doctors can increase diffusion by increasing the partial pressure of oxygen. In a diffuse infection a patient begins to lose both lung area (due to shunting) and the thickness of the diffusion barrier increases (due to inflammation). To help over…

You could always combine the iron lung with a mask that supplies oxygen.

Re: 'Pandemic ventilator' could offer solution in potential 'worst case' scenario

#45

Post by totalZero »

thornjm wrote: post #35
femto wrote: post #28

What about a "Both Respirator"? [1] In the 1930s polio epidemic there was a shortage of "iron lung" respirators, which were expensive to produce. Edward Both invented a plywood version, which was cheap and easy to produce. A re-purposed car factory then churned them out by the thousand. Is a negative pressure ventilator relevant for COVID-19 treatment? (Any knowledgeable medicos here who can offer a critique?) If so,…

Med student here - so I know some of the theory only. The most relevant "law" is Fick's Law of Diffusion ( https://d2jmvrsizmvf4x.cloudfront.net/CTU792sKR2evT2ezizQp_f... ). Doctors can increase diffusion by increasing the partial pressure of oxygen. In a diffuse infection a patient begins to lose both lung area (due to shunting) and the thickness of the diffusion barrier increases (due to inflammation). To help over…

It's too bad we can't put sick people in an airplane, put oxygen masks on them, shut the door, and pressurize the cabin. Like a hospital, but at the airport.

Re: 'Pandemic ventilator' could offer solution in potential 'worst case' scenario

#46

Post by jpmoral »

totalZero wrote: post #45
thornjm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Med student here - so I know some of the theory only. The most relevant "law" is Fick's Law of Diffusion ( https://d2jmvrsizmvf4x.cloudfront.net/CTU792sKR2evT2ezizQp_f... ). Doctors can increase diffusion by increasing the partial pressure of oxygen. In a diffuse infection a patient begins to lose both lung area (due to shunting) and the thickness of the diffusion barrier increases (due to inflammation). To help over…

It's too bad we can't put sick people in an airplane, put oxygen masks on them, shut the door, and pressurize the cabin. Like a hospital, but at the airport.

Why not? Maybe not in an airplane and not at an airport, but the same general idea.

Re: 'Pandemic ventilator' could offer solution in potential 'worst case' scenario

#47

Post by _bxg1 »

jpmoral wrote: post #46
totalZero wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad we can't put sick people in an airplane, put oxygen masks on them, shut the door, and pressurize the cabin. Like a hospital, but at the airport.

Why not? Maybe not in an airplane and not at an airport, but the same general idea.

We've got all those 737s...

Re: 'Pandemic ventilator' could offer solution in potential 'worst case' scenario

#48

Post by totalZero »

_bxg1 wrote: post #47
jpmoral wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Maybe not in an airplane and not at an airport, but the same general idea.

We've got all those 737s...

Almost 800 of the 737 Max are just sitting around collecting dust. Not to mention all the grounded wide-body aircraft.

Take out the seats, equip the cabin with ventilators, and when one outbreak gets under control, send the aircraft to the next outbreak zone.

They even have their own generators lol.

Re: 'Pandemic ventilator' could offer solution in potential 'worst case' scenario

#49

Post by hinkley »

totalZero wrote: post #45
thornjm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Med student here - so I know some of the theory only. The most relevant "law" is Fick's Law of Diffusion ( https://d2jmvrsizmvf4x.cloudfront.net/CTU792sKR2evT2ezizQp_f... ). Doctors can increase diffusion by increasing the partial pressure of oxygen. In a diffuse infection a patient begins to lose both lung area (due to shunting) and the thickness of the diffusion barrier increases (due to inflammation). To help over…

It's too bad we can't put sick people in an airplane, put oxygen masks on them, shut the door, and pressurize the cabin. Like a hospital, but at the airport.

Partial pressure is also what makes fire burn. There’s a fine line between pumping up oxygen and creating a tinderbox.

That said, you’re describing a bariatric chamber, and they do exist (they perform surgeries in some).

Re: 'Pandemic ventilator' could offer solution in potential 'worst case' scenario

#50

Post by adrianN »

ta1234567890 wrote: post #39

Is it possible to kill the virus inside the body, the same way we kill it outside? For example, if one could hypothetically spray alcohol everywhere inside someone's lungs, would that kill the infection? If so, could a liquid/gas mixture be developed to deliver the right virus-killer substance directly to the lungs? Does anyone here know about PFCs-breathing treatments?[0] 0: https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/201…

We don't have anything that kills the virus but doesn't kill living tissue as well. Pouring alcohol over your hands is fine because skin evolved to protect you from a harsh environment. Pouring alcohol over mucous membranes is a very bad idea.
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