Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple now allows iOS developers to send ads using push notifications

developer-tech.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 142 posts

Re: Apple now allows iOS developers to send ads using push notifications

#41

Post by JimDabell »

varjag wrote: post #36
bdibs wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s completely inaccurate, the dialog only shows once the app requests the permission.

The app checks for notifications authorization on every startup, and the system checks it against stored user settings. To establish the user settings initially, the system pops up the dialog the first time you run an app with notification capabilities.

No, that's not the case. The user only gets a prompt if the app requests permissions. The user doesn't get a prompt if all the app does is check for authorisation – the state is returned to the app as UNAuthorizationStatus.notDetermined without showing a prompt.

If an app prompts the user for permission to send notifications as soon as it starts up, then it's the app's fault. It's been known to be bad practice (and counter-productive) for many years.

Re: Apple now allows iOS developers to send ads using push notifications

#42

Post by PaulRobinson »

JimDabell wrote: post #39
ChrisRR wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I mostly agree that this would be abused, I disagree that there's no scenario where this is beneficial. It's like email updates from online retailers. I unsubscribe from the majority of them, but I allow a couple of retailers I like to send me promotions.

> It's like email updates from online retailers. I unsubscribe from the majority of them, but I allow a couple of retailers I like to send me promotions. Notifications are for when you need to know about something immediately and it's okay to interrupt you for it. How many of these retailers do you want that from? What's the benefit for the end-user over an email?

It's Friday, it's 4pm, I'm about to wind down for the weekend.

In London the biggest private hire cab firm that isn't Uber is Addison Lee. They sometimes send out a notification along the lines of "It's the weekend, enjoy it with us: £5 off your next 4 trips". Perfect. In the past I've changed my plans around that sort of advertising.

In an email, I'd miss it. It's timely, context aware advertising from a brand I'm happy to use and hear from, particularly in that moment.

The key here is that I can opt out of them, not that they appear everywhere no matter what: I can tell companies if I want to hear more from them in this manner.

Re: Apple now allows iOS developers to send ads using push notifications

#43

Post by ajscanlan »

viraptor wrote: post #11
sanedigital wrote: post #3

Depending on how this is implemented, this could actually be a step in the right direction. Lots of apps already send "promotional" push notifications (including big names like Lyft and Uber). The only way to turn them off was to turn off all notifications, which meant missing actual important updates. If this change means being able to opt-out of one without losing the other, I'm all for it.

This seems to work pretty well even when not enforced on Android: https://developer.android.com/training/notify-user/channels There are some bad apps which will abuse it and use only one category for the important things and ads. But mostly - it's ok. Enforcing a channel for ads would be even better.

Yeah this works really well on Android, I'm surprised Apple hasn't taken a similar approach.

You don't want ads from Uber but still want a push when your ride arrives? Just block the ads channel in settings.

As you said I'm sure there's some bad apps out there that only have one channel, but I haven't noticed any. The big apps seem to support this quite well.

Re: Apple now allows iOS developers to send ads using push notifications

#44

Post by lotsofpulp »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #29
JensRex wrote: post #18

How about Apple bring down the hammer on apps that are abusing notifications right now (or you just uninstall them), instead of allowing ways to shove more ads into peoples eyeballs. There is no scenario where this is a benefit to the consumer.

They wouldn't, because they earn millions off of apps like Uber and co. It's why Youtube is more tolerant of bad behaviour of high-profile (read: high-viewer, high-income) channels, and Twitter hasn't banned Trump and his bots yet - they make too much money off of it, both directly and indirectly ('engagement', network effects, etc).

How does Apple make money off of Uber and co?

Re: Apple now allows iOS developers to send ads using push notifications

#45

Post by ajscanlan »

onion2k wrote: post #26
yreg wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you uninstall Uber if they sent you a coupon via push notification?

I've uninstalled lots of apps when they've sent coupons via notifications. Notifications are to notify me about things I need to act on. They are not a marketing channel. So, yes.

If you had the option to block the marketing notifications but still receive the important ones, would you do that?

Re: Apple now allows iOS developers to send ads using push notifications

#47

Post by csunbird »

varjag wrote: post #36
bdibs wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s completely inaccurate, the dialog only shows once the app requests the permission.

The app checks for notifications authorization on every startup, and the system checks it against stored user settings. To establish the user settings initially, the system pops up the dialog the first time you run an app with notification capabilities.

I do not think this is the case, I had a lot of apps require notifications permission at a separate page with a question asking the user if they would like to receive notifications from this app and pop up the system notification permission dialog after the user taps "I want notifications" button.

Re: Apple now allows iOS developers to send ads using push notifications

#48

Post by fmajid »

amelius wrote: post #20
a_imho wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly I interpret the article as apps were abusing push notifications without a second thought in the past when it was explicitly against the guidelines, I fail to see how they will self moderate now some of it is even allowed. With the ample data we have so far it most probably will lead to dark UI patterns with dysfunctional opt-outs and/or blanket consents at most if someone takes it seriously at all.

Then these apps would be removed from the app store, I suppose.

Apple's enforcement of the app store rules is sporadic at best, specially the widespread abuse of notifications for marketing.

Re: Apple now allows iOS developers to send ads using push notifications

#49

Post by MrGilbert »

JimDabell wrote: post #39
ChrisRR wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I mostly agree that this would be abused, I disagree that there's no scenario where this is beneficial. It's like email updates from online retailers. I unsubscribe from the majority of them, but I allow a couple of retailers I like to send me promotions.

> It's like email updates from online retailers. I unsubscribe from the majority of them, but I allow a couple of retailers I like to send me promotions. Notifications are for when you need to know about something immediately and it's okay to interrupt you for it. How many of these retailers do you want that from? What's the benefit for the end-user over an email?

I'm not an expert in ad affairs. With this information on the table, consider the following:

I subscribe to a "price alert" for a product in my sellers app. The price gets triggered, and because there's a lot of demand for this item, I have to be fast.

This, for me, would justify the "push notification".

But, would this also be considered an "ad"? From the definition of the word "advertisement"[1], which says it's "a notice, picture or film telling people about a product, job or service", it would qualify as an ad.

[1]: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis...

Re: Apple now allows iOS developers to send ads using push notifications

#50

Post by dwhl »

PZWaRzU2HVh63Tk wrote: post #31

I thought this was allowed for apps in Chinese AppStore? All big-name apps like Taobao, WeChat, Didi sent me unwanted promotional notifications

In theory, promotional notifications were banned but in practice, it was never enforced, with even Apple's own apps breaking this rule.
Post reply on HN