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Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events

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Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events

#41

Post by greatpatton »

_xoo wrote: post #33
jonathanstrange wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wondering for a while why countries do not test people randomly like in phone surveys, i.e.randomly pick several thousand persons from a region and test them. Like in phone surveys you need to compensate for biases created from people declining to be tested, of course. It would be expensive, but it seems to me that it would yield a good picture of what is going on. Maybe I'm missing something obvious and th…

In Switzerland they currently have a good picture of whats going on. They were able to trace backe where all infected people got the disease from.

Yes in Switzerland and all the new cases originated in different place of Italy. So it seems that in Switzerland when people are back from Italy and having symptoms, they look for help and are tested. But as it is very unlikely that all these people were in contact with the 650 people detected in Italy (most of them were back from Milan, Verona, and not from the lockdown cities, my fear is that Italy is facing a different order of magnitude of cases. And that's why I was interested in potential model to simulate this.

Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events

#42

Post by jariel »

short_sells_poo wrote: post #28
CaptainZapp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as a Swiss I can only state for the record that the government is not the enemy. Essentially: The government is us.

Swiss resident (but not Swiss citizen) here. I believe Switzerland is a very unique case in that the Swiss have a culture of local (ie. Canton and Commune) level decision making via direct democracy. You grow up wielding a certain power, and you know your decisions matter and will affect your everyday life. This ingrains a close relationship between the citizens and their representatives. What I'm trying to say is th…

"It requires a multi-generational cultural conditioning to develop the civic mind that the Swiss have nurtured. It is also not clear how scalable it is ultimately."

It also requires ancient banking roots that enable it to sit on the largest 'pot of gold' in the world (1/3 of the entire world's foreign investment) and put the management surpluses into its treasury. And to add, much of that 'gold' was, and is, owned by some really, really bad people and stashed away in the mountains specifically because said keepers don't have qualms about the origins of said wealth.

Surplus money makes a lot of things a lot easier. (Much like the tone of a startup: flush with cash? It's all good times. Going out of business? Death marches!)

Switzerland for all its great things is a little like Lux, Norway, and Monaco, which is to say it's hard to separate their exceptionalism from their 'special status' of having huge piles of immense easy per capita wealth.

Also, to headline a post indicating 'national events shut down' which is an interesting but not particularly exceptional act, with the statement "We are the most X in the world, etc. etc." is slightly cringe-worthy. A lot of major events have been cancelled in a lot of places with similar risk exposures.

Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events

#43

Post by [deleted] »

greatpatton wrote: post #19

I'm wondering currently we have 40-60 cases in other EU countries all originating in Italy, but there are only 650 official cases in Italy. Based on this, it seems that the infection is widely widespread in Italy and the number of "undetected case" should be important (maybe for instance with a lot of asymptomatic carriers) Is there any model to predict this type of dispersion? Any interesting article on this subject…

[deleted]

Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events

#44

Post by chinathrow »

Angostura wrote: post #32
roenxi wrote: post #3

Switzerland, most democratic country in the world, reminding people that it isn't just the authoritarians who know how to keep organised. It is very hard to understand how democracies work; it is important to keep an eye on how these things play out.

I've always found Switzerland pretty authoritarian. Try hang out your washing on the wrong day of the week/in the wrong place.

That anecdote has nothing in common how the swiss gov/democracy works though.

Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events

#45

Post by ThePadawan »

sschueller wrote: post #25
zubspace wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what will happen to public transport. In the press conference was said, that currently, they are worried about large events, where people are very near to each other for quite some time. But large train stations, like in Zurich, Bern or Basel, are not yet affected. Also border controls do not seem to be affected. There are many people crossing borders to Italy or Germany for work by car or train. All in all,…

They also stated that infections appear to require less than 2 meter distance between people for at least 15 minutes.

Having tried to make friends living here for 12 years, it seems to me that the whole country is going to be just fine, in that case.

(This was a joke)

Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events

#46

Post by rimliu »

sschueller wrote: post #25
zubspace wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what will happen to public transport. In the press conference was said, that currently, they are worried about large events, where people are very near to each other for quite some time. But large train stations, like in Zurich, Bern or Basel, are not yet affected. Also border controls do not seem to be affected. There are many people crossing borders to Italy or Germany for work by car or train. All in all,…

They also stated that infections appear to require less than 2 meter distance between people for at least 15 minutes.

I wonder, does this somewhat explain Italy? My point is: cultures, where personal space is smaller and contact is more frequent are at higher risk of transmitting the virus. Or is this complete bollocks?

Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events

#47

Post by halest »

Angostura wrote: post #32
roenxi wrote: post #3

Switzerland, most democratic country in the world, reminding people that it isn't just the authoritarians who know how to keep organised. It is very hard to understand how democracies work; it is important to keep an eye on how these things play out.

I've always found Switzerland pretty authoritarian. Try hang out your washing on the wrong day of the week/in the wrong place.

So what would happen? You would get punished for causing inconvenience to a person who had a right to hang their washing on that day? Sounds very reasonable, how is that authoritarian?

Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events

#48

Post by mxcrossb »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #26
greatpatton wrote: post #19

I'm wondering currently we have 40-60 cases in other EU countries all originating in Italy, but there are only 650 official cases in Italy. Based on this, it seems that the infection is widely widespread in Italy and the number of "undetected case" should be important (maybe for instance with a lot of asymptomatic carriers) Is there any model to predict this type of dispersion? Any interesting article on this subject…

I've been wondering for a while why countries do not test people randomly like in phone surveys, i.e.randomly pick several thousand persons from a region and test them. Like in phone surveys you need to compensate for biases created from people declining to be tested, of course. It would be expensive, but it seems to me that it would yield a good picture of what is going on. Maybe I'm missing something obvious and th…

It might have to do with the testing technology. If your false positive rate is high, but you’re only testing people with clear symptoms, it’s fine. But if you test random people the data could be too noisy

Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events

#49

Post by PetitPrince »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #39
RajuVarghese wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also requires a certain willingness to compromise. In Switzerland one sees is all the way from the local government (gemeinde) up to the top (the federal level). Compromise is not a dirty word here; when politicians do it they are not (usually) looked at as 'giving in to the enemy'.

That's an extremely insightful comment and very true. Not that it's universally adhered to by all proponents, but generally that's very much the understanding how the system should work. As a for example: Switzerland has a "president". But that doesn't really matter since that changes annually and another member of the federal council gets to be president. Except representative the "president" is not more powerful th…

To further clarify: The president have mostly a ceremonial and diplomatic role. What is considered the Head of the Executive Branch in other countries is collectively represented here by the Federal Council. The Council is made of 7 peoples elected proportionally from the various political party by the Federal Assembly (== parliement). The Council should also by picked so that all regions of Switzerland are represented.
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