Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't get me wrong, I personally am totally in favor of Pipewire. The GP was making it sound like it's going to be some kind of panacea though, and I don't think that is going to happen. Pro audio is hard. It takes a long time to bring a project like this up to speed (I know because I've been waiting patiently for the video streaming stuff to stabilize). Pipewire is a good improvement for users but it doesn't bring a…
If only JUCE supported the open LV2 plugin format.. (And opening up projects in Projucer and saving out something wasn't an all to commonly required build step) I would encourage interested folk to check out DPF and/or come hang out in #lad and #lv2 on Freenode. https://github.com/DISTRHO/DPF
PipeWire 0.3 – JACK compatibility layer with comparable performance to JACK2
41–44 of 44 posts
Re: PipeWire 0.3 – JACK compatibility layer with comparable performance to JACK2
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure what larger issue you're pointing at and I don't think it makes sense to chalk this up to anything else; no sound server can magically figure out how to read that data sheet either. A random userspace daemon (that is optional) is just not the right place to put a fix for that. The burden for a fix likely falls on your distro to ship the correct udev rules, but figuring out what those are for all variatio…
I think you put it well by writing "Pipewire is probably not going to make your ALSA configuration issues go away." I never claimed there was a quick fix, but I kinda hoped that Pipewire/Redhat have the leverage to fix whatever needs to be fixed in the ALSA API to make userspace audio a seamless experience. My naive impression is that the ALSA driver model is "broken"[1] -- most likely because many parts that need to…
This can be true for devices following the Intel HDA "specification" (which is still so loosely constructed when it comes to the mixer that it's barely a specification at all). It's also true for many of the USB interfaces out there - the audio/MIDI I/O part works flawlessly on Linux (thanks to iOS' "no driver" requirement), but there's no way to configure the hardware mixer. MOTU went with a web-based configuration process for some of their devices, which is truly lovely since it works on any device with a web browser. But companies like Focusrite (and many more) continue to refuse to openly provide the information required for the ALSA internals to control the hardware mixer on these devices. In some cases, they have been reverse engineered, but often only partially.
Note that the same limitation applies when using those devices on iOS: you cannot configure them fully, unless the manufacturer makes an iOS version of the "device control panel".
Re: PipeWire 0.3 – JACK compatibility layer with comparable performance to JACK2
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure what larger issue you're pointing at and I don't think it makes sense to chalk this up to anything else; no sound server can magically figure out how to read that data sheet either. A random userspace daemon (that is optional) is just not the right place to put a fix for that. The burden for a fix likely falls on your distro to ship the correct udev rules, but figuring out what those are for all variatio…
I think you put it well by writing "Pipewire is probably not going to make your ALSA configuration issues go away." I never claimed there was a quick fix, but I kinda hoped that Pipewire/Redhat have the leverage to fix whatever needs to be fixed in the ALSA API to make userspace audio a seamless experience. My naive impression is that the ALSA driver model is "broken"[1] -- most likely because many parts that need to…
Re: PipeWire 0.3 – JACK compatibility layer with comparable performance to JACK2
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure what larger issue you're pointing at and I don't think it makes sense to chalk this up to anything else; no sound server can magically figure out how to read that data sheet either. A random userspace daemon (that is optional) is just not the right place to put a fix for that. The burden for a fix likely falls on your distro to ship the correct udev rules, but figuring out what those are for all variatio…
I think you put it well by writing "Pipewire is probably not going to make your ALSA configuration issues go away." I never claimed there was a quick fix, but I kinda hoped that Pipewire/Redhat have the leverage to fix whatever needs to be fixed in the ALSA API to make userspace audio a seamless experience. My naive impression is that the ALSA driver model is "broken"[1] -- most likely because many parts that need to…
So that means that systems like PulseAudio, JACK and PipeWire are where the "seamless experience" are going to happen, not really in ALSA. To use the comparison with CoreAudio, ALSA operates (1) as if every application enables hog mode. Try that sometime on macOS ... and watch your "seamless experience" completely fall apart :)
This is where PipeWire does offer some real hope. Whereas PulseAudio and JACK deliberately target different use cases/workflows, PipeWire seeks to unify them in a similar way to what coreaudiod does on macOS (device sharing, multiple sample rates, buffer sizes, etc. etc.)
Note that there is a cost to this, even on macOS. You cannot get the absolute minimum device latency on macOS, which you can on Linux. But most (all?) users on macOS seem OK with, either because they just don't know that or because they do and think that the convenience tradeoff is worth it. I imagine that if/when PipeWire reaches its full goals, it will impose a similar burden (though perhaps with an option to avoid it by disabling some functionality).
The key point, however, is that applications (2) are going to continue to either the ALSA or the JACK API for doing audio/MIDI I/O. ALSA ... because it's there, and has several 3rd party libraries built on top of it to make things simpler for developers. JACK ... because it's insanely well designed [:))] and gets the job done, portably and efficiently.
(1) well, it mostly does. The library that apps actually use to talk to ALSA can do device sharing, but it's never been widely used for that, and the design is bit ... well, it's not ideal.
(2) all apps except Skype and Firefox, which join the hall of shame for actually deciding to use the "native" PulseAudio API, something the original author of PulseAudio strongly recommended against.