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Overthinking it and the value of simple solutions (2019)

korecki.me

41–50 of 58 posts

Re: Overthinking it and the value of simple solutions (2019)

#41

A lot of technologies are getting way more complex and confusing than necessary. Just look at the market of time management. Tonnes of tools, software, coaches, websites, books, etc. You name it. I recently found out that a simple .txt file serves me exceptionally well (a good IDE plugin definitely helps, too!). No more messy software, apps, journals, etc. which I feel are making my time management tasks even more ch…

But org-mode!

Sorry, someone had to do it!

Re: Overthinking it and the value of simple solutions (2019)

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Driving your car is far more safe while drunk than blindfolded and on cocaine" You can sprinkle some jQuery here and there without it being 'spaghetti'. Also, how is having thousands of dependencies for a bit of HTML rendering 'simple'?

You assume that all webpages are "a bit of HTML", which is imho an arrogant way to look at Client-Side web development.

If you add up the lines of code that your javascript dependencies have versus the lines of HTML code that is generated with those hundreds of thousands of lines of JS, then probably yes, the lines of HTML are only few.

But to each his own.

Re: Overthinking it and the value of simple solutions (2019)

#43
post #14

https://boringtechnology.club/

I guess valid TLS is not boring enough for this website?

The content is worth reading, well-maintained website or not.

Here's an archive snapshot if you prefer: https://web.archive.org/web/20200202175812/http://boringtech...

Re: Overthinking it and the value of simple solutions (2019)

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

still unsure i follow. i must be missing something... react does not prevent anyone from using jquery afaik. in fact, anyone can go ahead and use jquery with react if they want. react is doing what php did a while ago (and is still doing). it's mixing frontend with backend stuff. i personally find it refreshing! we did that for a while then people came and told us how bad it was and we needed to do strict MVC or what…

> still unsure i follow. i must be missing something... react does not prevent anyone from using jquery afaik. in fact, anyone can go ahead and use jquery with react if they want. React / Angular JS etc tend to require spending a lot of time learning how it works first. Then you have to build almost all your application around it. This can take a lot of time, which pushed up costs and complexity. If you are building…

React is easy as hell to learn nowadays, I'd say about as easy to get into as as PHP. Any semi-experienced developer will be writing production grade code after at most a week of learning.

Re: Overthinking it and the value of simple solutions (2019)

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can learn any framework and get good at even while on a project, in just a couple of months. The problem is that there are too many things to learn in terms of tooling and frameworks all the time making you have less time/bandwidth for the actual domain problems which are why you have the said job. Getting good is one thing and becoming an expert is another. Because these frameworks lifetimes you don’t want to be…

The problem I have with many of the modern frameworks is the tutorials is extremely simple or they are far too advanced. Also there is a lot of jargon around each frameworks. So a lot of the time, I just give up and go back to jQuery, Handlebars and event delegation as that does 90% of what I need.

That's why I am saying "while on a project". You have to create a project for yourself or join an existing project to make a framework like Angular click. Just aimlessly learning makes it much harder to make all this knowledge "crystallize", especially if it's the nth framework you're learning and the motivation's become low.

Re: Overthinking it and the value of simple solutions (2019)

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have with many of the modern frameworks is the tutorials is extremely simple or they are far too advanced. Also there is a lot of jargon around each frameworks. So a lot of the time, I just give up and go back to jQuery, Handlebars and event delegation as that does 90% of what I need.

That's why I am saying "while on a project". You have to create a project for yourself or join an existing project to make a framework like Angular click. Just aimlessly learning makes it much harder to make all this knowledge "crystallize", especially if it's the nth framework you're learning and the motivation's become low.

I've worked professionally with Angular 2 and 4 and it just a PITA. People either just end up using it like the JavaScript version of ASP.NET WebForms or you end up with one guy that really knows it inside out and nobody understand the code he has written.

It hides too much of what is going on for my liking and if you break something a lot of the time it is impossible to diagnose without slowly pulling the code apart.

With just plain old JS I can always crack open the debugger and I am sorted.

Re: Overthinking it and the value of simple solutions (2019)

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> still unsure i follow. i must be missing something... react does not prevent anyone from using jquery afaik. in fact, anyone can go ahead and use jquery with react if they want. React / Angular JS etc tend to require spending a lot of time learning how it works first. Then you have to build almost all your application around it. This can take a lot of time, which pushed up costs and complexity. If you are building…

React is easy as hell to learn nowadays, I'd say about as easy to get into as as PHP. Any semi-experienced developer will be writing production grade code after at most a week of learning.

Is it? Because there is normally things like JSX, React Router, Redux and a lot of other stuff that you have to learn with it to build an application.

I've seen fairly decent backend developers having a right mare trying to get their head around just the npm tooling (no it isn't obvious if you haven't worked with it before).

People don't realise that there is a lot of the eco-system you have to learn just to do something fairly basic. You also have to unlearn things that you've done before elsewhere which itself can be difficult.

So I find this hard to believe.

Anyway this is going down the road of "why don't you use this it is easy?" which isn't the point I was originally making. I personally getting fed up of all the bloody tooling you have to learn to make something basic, when I can just ignore it and go back to basics.

Re: Overthinking it and the value of simple solutions (2019)

#48
post #6

I shudder to think about the amount of man hours wasted on a relatively simple website that has been completely over-engineered with the likes of React and/or Angular JS when a simple server side MVC framework and a bit of jQuery could have sufficed. The industry is rife with people that instead of looking at a problem and choosing the appropriate tech to solve the problem. They choose the technology and then try to…

While not disagreeing with your point, it is also worth noting that in some contexts developers are regarded as unemployable if they don't have experience with whatever the latest technology is so it is hardly surprising that people use every opportunity they can to get exposure to the latest tools. 'Modern' hiring practises cause a lot of problems.

Yep, that's the other side of the "resume-driven development" coin.

Re: Overthinking it and the value of simple solutions (2019)

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I am saying "while on a project". You have to create a project for yourself or join an existing project to make a framework like Angular click. Just aimlessly learning makes it much harder to make all this knowledge "crystallize", especially if it's the nth framework you're learning and the motivation's become low.

I've worked professionally with Angular 2 and 4 and it just a PITA. People either just end up using it like the JavaScript version of ASP.NET WebForms or you end up with one guy that really knows it inside out and nobody understand the code he has written. It hides too much of what is going on for my liking and if you break something a lot of the time it is impossible to diagnose without slowly pulling the code apart…

Things have gotten better with Angular 7 but, my experience is different from yours. I built my own project in Angular 7 , followed all the guidelines and maintenance has been a non issue and the project is very clean. But I could see things going crazy complicated if more devs add code to the project, I hear your frustration

Re: Overthinking it and the value of simple solutions (2019)

#50

I shudder to think about the amount of man hours wasted on a relatively simple website that has been completely over-engineered with the likes of React and/or Angular JS when a simple server side MVC framework and a bit of jQuery could have sufficed. The industry is rife with people that instead of looking at a problem and choosing the appropriate tech to solve the problem. They choose the technology and then try to…

The problem here is that it's actually hard to do a lot of what should be 'simple things' without all that cruft.

Web interfaces are unlike other tech layers in the sense that without tooling, it's often not 'simpler' it's diving into the cruft and weirdness of browserland.

React etc. are not just 'frameworks' they are also 'making something very hard to use, usable in a specific way'.

This issue exposes the inherent hidden complexity of browser weirdness.

If you really want to keep it simple, within some very specific parameters, and have enough experience to know what those are ... it's managable 'by hand' or whatever. But it usually gets ugly.

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