Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How These Things Work – A book about CS from first principles (2016)

reasonablypolymorphic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 62 posts

Re: How These Things Work – A book about CS from first principles (2016)

#41

Post by bordercases »

danielvaughn wrote: post #35
kragen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Code 's good but it doesn't cover Kleisli categories and Kleisli composition, Peano arithmetic, parametric polymorphism, sum types, pattern matching, or any of numerous other things covered in Maguire's How These Things Work . So it's not accurate to say Code is "far more comprehensive"; Code mentions FORTRAN, ALGOL, COBOL, PL/1, and BASIC, but the example programs it contains are written in assembly, ALGOL, and BASI…

It's very depressing that I've been a developer for 8 years and I've never heard any of those terms you mentioned. I'm self taught but I've always felt like I should go back and really learn the fundamentals.

I don't think you can be much more efficient than learning over a period of 8 years if you maintain so-called work-life balance, or being an autodidact. Remember that they have 4-year degrees for this.

Re: How These Things Work – A book about CS from first principles (2016)

#42

Post by bordercases »

kragen wrote: post #25
grumple wrote: post #16

I recommend Code: The Hidden Language of Computer Hardware and Software by Charles Petzold [1]. It is far more comprehensive than the OP, goes from pre-computer code, to electrical circuits, to an overview of assembly. No prior knowledge needed except how to read. 1. https://www.amazon.com/Code-Language-Computer-Hardware-Softw...

Code 's good but it doesn't cover Kleisli categories and Kleisli composition, Peano arithmetic, parametric polymorphism, sum types, pattern matching, or any of numerous other things covered in Maguire's How These Things Work . So it's not accurate to say Code is "far more comprehensive"; Code mentions FORTRAN, ALGOL, COBOL, PL/1, and BASIC, but the example programs it contains are written in assembly, ALGOL, and BASI…

"The Architecture of Symbolic Computers" by Kogge comes close.

Re: How These Things Work – A book about CS from first principles (2016)

#43

Post by thepete2 »

Toenex wrote: post #2

Nice. I did an EE degree many years ago even though I wanted to work in software. The single best course I did was to design, simulate and have fabricated a 4 bit microprocessor. It completely solidified my understanding of how computations took place. Hopefully, texts like this will do the same for others.

By "fabricate" do you mean that your design was produced in silicon? If so, that's super cool!

Re: How These Things Work – A book about CS from first principles (2016)

#44

Post by joshspankit »

koonsolo wrote: post #5

I never heard of "first principles" until Elon Musk used it. (Not a native English speaker) Now I see it everywhere. Must be the new overhyped term. "We start from first principles, just like Elon Musk". After looking at Google trends, I might be wrong, so nevermind ;) https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=First%20...

Possibly the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon

Re: How These Things Work – A book about CS from first principles (2016)

#45

Post by carapace »

berkeleyjunk wrote: post #40
criddell wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reading Code right now and it's fantastic. I'm a bit more than 1/2 the way through and so far it's only been about how computers work and not really about computer science. I heard an expression this weekend that I think is apt - a computer is to computer science as a telescope is to astronomy.

Dijkstra is supposed to have said something like this though the origin is disputed. "Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes."

"Calling it 'computer science' is like calling surgery 'knife science'."

(Also, "CS could be called the post-Turing decline in the study of formal systems." But I don't know for sure if that was Dijkstra. It's one of my favorite jokes.)

Re: How These Things Work – A book about CS from first principles (2016)

#46

Post by murgindrag »

eat wrote: post #39
danielvaughn wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very depressing that I've been a developer for 8 years and I've never heard any of those terms you mentioned. I'm self taught but I've always felt like I should go back and really learn the fundamentals.

I'm not saying you shouldn't always strive to learn new things (for your own personal growth and curiosity), but I think it's important to point out that the link between being a developer and knowing about these things-- esoteric topics of applied Mathematics-- is pretty weak. Imagine a carpenter spending their time getting a chemistry degree in order to better understand how wood glue works.

I don't think so. Understanding what goes on underneath the hood is really what differentiates decent coders from great engineers. Compare the data structures of Subversion to those of git. Or look at some of the work John Carmack did in video games. That requires depth.

If your goal is to be a carpenter who puts together housing frames, you absolutely don't need depth. You're also interchangeable and get paid union blue collar wages. On the other hand, if you want to be a craftsman who invents new wooden things, you need depth in some direction, be that structural engineering, artistic, or otherwise.

There's a ceiling you hit unless you learn much more of this stuff. The direction is your choice (but new APIs ain't it -- we're talking depth).

Re: How These Things Work – A book about CS from first principles (2016)

#47

Post by elbear »

murgindrag wrote: post #46
eat wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying you shouldn't always strive to learn new things (for your own personal growth and curiosity), but I think it's important to point out that the link between being a developer and knowing about these things-- esoteric topics of applied Mathematics-- is pretty weak. Imagine a carpenter spending their time getting a chemistry degree in order to better understand how wood glue works.

I don't think so. Understanding what goes on underneath the hood is really what differentiates decent coders from great engineers. Compare the data structures of Subversion to those of git. Or look at some of the work John Carmack did in video games. That requires depth. If your goal is to be a carpenter who puts together housing frames, you absolutely don't need depth. You're also interchangeable and get paid union…

Not everyone needs to be great.

What I actually want to say is that OP shouldn't feel guilty about not knowing those things. It's okay to want to master these things, if it's what you want. But it's pointless to feel bad about not knowing them.

Re: How These Things Work – A book about CS from first principles (2016)

#48

Post by dang »

djangovm wrote: post #37
matco11 wrote: post #12

One of my favorite books on subject is The Elements of Computing Systems: Building a Modern Computer from First Principles by Noam Nisan https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Computing-Systems-Building-P...

Would you say that this book is still relevant, now that it is 15 years old?

It's wonderfully relevant because it takes you through the basics and those are all still the same. Their simulator software was already old when I went through the book a few years ago, but I'm sure it still works fine.

Re: How These Things Work – A book about CS from first principles (2016)

#49

Post by dbish »

matco11 wrote: post #12

One of my favorite books on subject is The Elements of Computing Systems: Building a Modern Computer from First Principles by Noam Nisan https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Computing-Systems-Building-P...

Agreed. I read through this on a recent vacation and even though i have a computer engineering degree, it was nice to get through the basics again and they have some fun exercises.

Re: How These Things Work – A book about CS from first principles (2016)

#50

Post by jwhitlark »

kragen wrote: post #26
ceronman wrote: post #13

I love this kind of Books! In a much more general tone, there is "The Knowledge: How To Rebuild Our World After An Apocalypse" by Lewis Dartnell. This explains the first principles of a lot of things we take for granted in the modern world, from agriculture to food and clothing, medicine, chemistry and more. This book about CS principles is a great complement to that!

As I posted the last time this book came up https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22294655 that book would be more accurately called The Misinformation . If you follow the instructions in it you will die. Better alternatives are listed in my linked comment.

I agree. I was deeply disappointed by "The Knowledge..."
Post reply on HN