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Starliner faced “catastrophic” failure before software bug found

arstechnica.com

41–50 of 64 posts

Re: Starliner faced “catastrophic” failure before software bug found

#41
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah so just the fact that Boeing has been around for half a century doesn't absolve them from being subject to safety reviews? Nice to see some sense.

Well, their CEO also doesn’t go on podcasts and smoke pot. Not that I think that’s necessarily a better or worse sign that SpaceX is or is not safe than a CEO drinking moderately in public, but we are prudish about these things in the States.

[deleted]

Re: Starliner faced “catastrophic” failure before software bug found

#42
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah so just the fact that Boeing has been around for half a century doesn't absolve them from being subject to safety reviews? Nice to see some sense.

It's McDonnell-Douglas with a Boeing name -- beancounters run the show now.

You put a very disappointing feeling into words. Such a shame.

Re: Starliner faced “catastrophic” failure before software bug found

#43
post #2

> According to the source, Boeing patched a software code error just two hours before the vehicle reentered Earth's atmosphere. Had the error not been caught, the source said, proper thrusters would not open during the reentry process, and the vehicle would have been lost. Uh, that's extremely concerning for a CREWED capsule.

Wouldn’t like to be the guy pushing an update to a crewed capsule just before re-entry. I stress out enough about pushing code as it is. But then I wouldn’t like to be the guy who left an error in the code to begin with.

Re: Starliner faced “catastrophic” failure before software bug found

#44
post #2

> According to the source, Boeing patched a software code error just two hours before the vehicle reentered Earth's atmosphere. Had the error not been caught, the source said, proper thrusters would not open during the reentry process, and the vehicle would have been lost. Uh, that's extremely concerning for a CREWED capsule.

Makes me wonder why put all this effort to make space-travel safe for crews. Why not focus on remotely controlled or AI autonomous vehicles instead?

It’s hard enough to get an AI to work well in a known situation line driving, never mind an unknown planet.

But more importantly - where is the fun in that?

Re: Starliner faced “catastrophic” failure before software bug found

#45
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm going to order a copy of "The Mythical Man-Month" for Boeing too late. Boeing is already deep in Agile, a methodology which promises that a child can be delivered by the way of 9 incremental monthly deliveries. https://www.infosysconsultinginsights.com/2019/06/12/the-ris... "Boeing was an early Agile adopter in 2008 surpassing its rival, Airbus, in 2012 by deploying a newly renovated 737 Max 8 faster to market.…

The baby analogy is pithy, but I don’t really see the comparison. You don’t do your software development in increments smaller than a month? What does that mean, you spend two months just writing specs?

I'd hope that it takes more than 2 months for specs at Boeing. No, we don't write the specs that long, if any. I mean that would be so w-word. In our case while usually almost everybody is on the same page that legs should be attached lower and hands - higher, the actual attachment points and number of the legs, hands, etc. may be pretty fluid through the iterations, and especially the things like number and topology of digits or the shape, number and location of eyes and other sensors.

Re: Starliner faced “catastrophic” failure before software bug found

#46
post #7

So we know there were catastrophic bugs in the 737 Max, they've found additional bugs that haven't been catastrophic yet and now we hear that the Starliner also has software bugs. I'm going to order a copy of "The Mythical Man-Month" for Boeing ... they need to get way back to the basics. (Where's Margaret Hamilton when you need here?

I have respect for the software developers who write code where human lives are at risk. I don't think I would sleep well if a bug of mine could create a catastrophic event like that. If I fuckup completely, the only thing lost is money.

Re: Starliner faced “catastrophic” failure before software bug found

#48

On a certain blog that is completely outside acceptable standards for wrongthink and political correctness, a very popular topic of late is why NASA seems to have it in for Elon Musk Personally and SpaceX generally. The commonly stated reasons, and I will be paraphrasing and transliterating freely, are: HR culture defining administration wide objectives and methods and reasoning, professional embarrassment over langu…

FYI the Space Shuttle flew 10 missions for the DoD, making it far more relevant to the military than the Saturn V.

After Congress pulled critical funding for a good and actually cheap in use Shuttle, DoD poured money with caveat of requirements that killed shuttle economy long term, many of the requirements never being executed (like polar orbits from Vandenberg)

Re: Starliner faced “catastrophic” failure before software bug found

#49
post #16

On a certain blog that is completely outside acceptable standards for wrongthink and political correctness, a very popular topic of late is why NASA seems to have it in for Elon Musk Personally and SpaceX generally. The commonly stated reasons, and I will be paraphrasing and transliterating freely, are: HR culture defining administration wide objectives and methods and reasoning, professional embarrassment over langu…

> On a certain blog that is completely outside acceptable standards for wrongthink and political correctness What does this statement really add besides political signaling?

I wanted to be clear that i didn't come up with the ideas I related, and I have gotten in trouble with HN moderation for linking the blog in the past.

Re: Starliner faced “catastrophic” failure before software bug found

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing took the "we'll do very rigorous engineering up front and prove everything on paper" approach, where SpaceX took the "we'll prove it works by actually launching it" approach (which isn't to say SpaceX isn't operating with engineering rigor). In theory Boeing ran all their simulations over the past couple years, and this flight should have just been a formality. As it turns out, Boeing is running into a lot of…

This is likely an oversimplification. There are multiple organizations, even within Boeing Defense & Space, that write their own flight software. All stovepiped and largely working in parallel. This doesn't even include the commercial folks, infamous for the 737 Max. My understanding is that the St. Louis teams are better regarded, and the folks that worked on DARPA HACMS deserve some credit, but they seem to be outl…

Obviously it's a simplification; comparing and contrasting the approaches of SpaceX and Boeing would require several walls of text...

At the core of the issue though, the process that SpaceX pitched to NASA (and NASA approved) involved quite a bit of actual hardware testing. Boeing's plan (also approved by NASA) relied much more heavily on simulation, modelling, and other sorts of process validation. For instance, Boeing did not perform an in-flight abort.

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