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Re: undefined

#41
post #19

One surreal aspect of the modern system, when viewed from the perspective of 1800s leftism, is that there are many programmers (laborers, technically) who have more money than the average landlord. How do you draw the pyramid then?

Only in the USA bubble. Even software engineers are barely middle/upper-middle class in most of the world. A landlord, lawyer, doctor can easily gather more wealth.

Here in Dublin you can make good money (for Europe). All the tech US companies are based here now.

Re: undefined

#42
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For how long?

[flagged]

It'd be nice to see an example of a socialist county that hadn't been constantly attacked and sabotaged by capitalist countries and allowed to go its own way. Then at least we'd be able to do a fairer comparison.

Re: undefined

#43

For modern day US, the structure of the pyramid is upside-down. The folks at the top get the big plate and the folks at the bottom are all reaching to foist up the small plate, which keeps the whole thing afloat. How long can our current structure last before it collapses?

The concept you mention of the working class keeping the pyramid stable is the intent of the image.

> The basic message of the image is the critique of the capitalist system, with its hierarchy of power and wealth. It also illustrates that the working class is supporting all others, and if it would withdraw their support from the system it could, literally, topple the existing social order.

Re: undefined

#45

One surreal aspect of the modern system, when viewed from the perspective of 1800s leftism, is that there are many programmers (laborers, technically) who have more money than the average landlord. How do you draw the pyramid then?

Software dev, and many if most jobs these days, are not labourers.

A labourer is someone with no special skill or trade. Stacking shelves is a labourer job: the only requirement is physical strength.

Software devs are generally highly skilled professionals like perhaps lawyers.

Re: undefined

#46

One surreal aspect of the modern system, when viewed from the perspective of 1800s leftism, is that there are many programmers (laborers, technically) who have more money than the average landlord. How do you draw the pyramid then?

In fairness, the programmers you are talking about are not (laborers). They would own non trivial amounts of stock making them members of the capital class. Yes, they do work, but so do lots of members of the capital class.

A programmer who is not also a landlord, nor a member of the capital class, is very unlikely to have more, or even as much, wealth as a typical landlord in their area. A pure laborer is pretty much at the bottom of the wealth pyramid. That can change if you pay the laborer enough to start buying real estate in their area for example. But that would turn those laborers into landlords.

Re: undefined

#47

One surreal aspect of the modern system, when viewed from the perspective of 1800s leftism, is that there are many programmers (laborers, technically) who have more money than the average landlord. How do you draw the pyramid then?

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#48
post #23

In the recent months I've been thinking more and more about the capitalist system and it's flaws. In case of doubt it's about profit and not about humans (ridiculous pharma patents, boeing 737 max; there are countless examples everywhere). It seems to me that the whole world can't live peacefully side by side by design when everyone is always striving for more money, power and growth. I don't know how to fix this but…

I'm a fan of Hayek on this - I believe the market is one of the most incredible things every created by humanity, phenomenally complex and information rich, and it stands to reason that there is no way a group of people can ever hope to come close to the market's capability of communicating information about desires from people to producers.

And the best practical evidence we have is that every significant attempt at communism has produced dreadful outcomes, up to and including actual genocide. Communism can only work when every country in the world is Communist, because otherwise people will always want to leave for the Capitalist country where things are better. Draw your own conclusions about where highly visible activists really want to take the world.

Re: undefined

#50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It'd be nice to see an example of a socialist county that hadn't been constantly attacked and sabotaged by capitalist countries and allowed to go its own way. Then at least we'd be able to do a fairer comparison.

France, Denmark, Finland and Sweden all qualify for most American definitions of the term "Socialist".
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