Using Real Names has Real Consequences • Hacker News Board

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#41

Post by dalore » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 12:14 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #35

evgen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pseudonyms may be a social firewall, but they also cheapen discourse because there is no consequence attached to speech. It may "put a layer of insulation between yourself and immature idiots", but it also is what allows those immature idiots to flourish in the first place. Communities like HN are far and away a minority on the net and a quick bounce through 4chan will show you just what speech without consequences l…

The benefits to pseudonyms /far/ outwiegh the penalties. As pyre has already said, 4chan's b channel is a force unto itself, but there are plenty of other places with no consequences where the speech is fine and isn't the devolved miasma you make it out to be. Pseudonyms also protect people against unwarranted discrimination. I speak as a white male with a white male name that it's fucking awesome being a white male.…

4chan doesn't really use pseudonyms, it's all anon. This means the speech itself is all you can go by and not the (pseudo)name of the poster. The idea itself gets judged without the bias of past posts or who actually made the post.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#42

Post by fwdbureau » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 12:38 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #39

fwdbureau wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the same thing two days ago for the exact same reason, with the name "Aleph Zadik", and it worked like a charm. Is there a human being deciding what looks like a real name or not, or is it algorithm-based?

FB started out when you had to give your "official" email address to sign up, which would usually be firstname.lastname@university.ac.uk (or .edu for Americans). People who insist on using their "handles" are hankering back to the world where online and offline lives were mainly seperate. That just isn't true any more, it's as if you used a fake name in the phone book and wondered why no-one called...

I agree with you that using nicknames is hankering back to the "old" way, but I can't see why it wouldn't be possible anymore to separate on & off. Simply because a couple of IT moguls (Schmidt, Zuck and such) have predicted one future for us? We humans have enough talent and imagination to escape, distort and nullify those bleak predictions. AT least I hope so.

And yes, using a nick on FB means exactly this: you don't want anyone to call you. I simply don't want to network with my friends & family on facebook (better ways are available), but i needed access to the API ^^

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#43

Post by ez77 » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 1:38 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #23

petercooper wrote: post #17

As the only person commenting here so far using my full name as my HN handle, I'll agree that there's a big difference in how one acts when using one's real name than under a pseudonym (even one based on your full name). I only maintain the habit because of my journalistic background - bylines are like gold-dust to me, even if they're on HN ;-) In my case, I back away from "crazies" and flamewars pretty quickly, rema…

I have found the opposite - by using a handle on a debate site, I've been able to float very taboo topics that have ended up being pretty illuminating and illustrative that I never would have engaged in if I was 'protecting my name and keeping away from the crazies'. One example was in an online debate about a report of necrophiliac abuse of cadavers in a funeral home. Highly emotive topic and sets off the rage in mo…

One example was in an online debate about a report of necrophiliac abuse of cadavers in a funeral home.

OK... but let's say that most topics in HN are of a different kind. I doubt you will receive severe stalking because you, say, praised Emacs =).

(For the record, "I'm not worthy" (at least yet) to put a link or my real name in HN.)

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#44

Post by _delirium » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 4:36 PM UTC

evgen wrote: post #27

vacri wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real names attached to unpopular commentary = danger. For example, if you're in a conservative town and you're using your real name while arguing for civil rights for homosexuals, you might draw nutcases tracking you down and harrassing you for your simple viewpoints instead of engaging you in the medium you participated in. This isn't a matter of not owning what you say, but a matter of putting a layer of insulation…

Pseudonyms may be a social firewall, but they also cheapen discourse because there is no consequence attached to speech. It may "put a layer of insulation between yourself and immature idiots", but it also is what allows those immature idiots to flourish in the first place. Communities like HN are far and away a minority on the net and a quick bounce through 4chan will show you just what speech without consequences l…

> A true "psuedonym" would provide you with insulation, but would follow you everywhere and you would only get one.

I don't see a big advantage to this, or at least, prefer communities where it's unnecessary. Why do you need information about how someone conducts themselves elsewhere on the net? Imo, if an online community (like any community) is functioning well, its members develop a familiarity with each other based on internal interactions.

For example, in its heydey, I knew all the regular kuro5hin posters by their k5 pseudonyms, and had positive and negative impressions of them based entirely on their k5 posting. Same with the mailing lists I'm on, the smaller (non-Reddit-sized) forums I post on, etc. Knowing external information about what they post on Slashdot or LKML or Usenet doesn't really seem necessary, and tracking people cross-websites like that even seems a bit creepy/stalkerish (unless they themselves link to their own activity elsewhere). Heck, I didn't even care if someone was a troll on Slashdot, so long as their posting on k5 was interesting.

I sort of like that one-reputation-per-community model. It does require communities that are actually communities, though, and have regulars who recognize each other. Gigantic communities with tens of thousands of transient commenters aren't really communities, so run into more problems.

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#45

Post by petercooper » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 11:57 PM UTC

ez77 wrote: post #43

vacri wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found the opposite - by using a handle on a debate site, I've been able to float very taboo topics that have ended up being pretty illuminating and illustrative that I never would have engaged in if I was 'protecting my name and keeping away from the crazies'. One example was in an online debate about a report of necrophiliac abuse of cadavers in a funeral home. Highly emotive topic and sets off the rage in mo…

One example was in an online debate about a report of necrophiliac abuse of cadavers in a funeral home. OK... but let's say that most topics in HN are of a different kind. I doubt you will receive severe stalking because you, say, praised Emacs =). (For the record, "I'm not worthy" (at least yet) to put a link or my real name in HN.)

I doubt you will receive severe stalking because you, say, praised Emacs =)

Oh mannnn, you haven't been in a vi/emacs flamewar yet have you?! ;-)

I joke. Or do I..

Re: Using Real Names has Real Consequences

#46

Post by petercooper » Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 11:59 PM UTC

camtarn wrote: post #40

petercooper wrote: post #17

As the only person commenting here so far using my full name as my HN handle, I'll agree that there's a big difference in how one acts when using one's real name than under a pseudonym (even one based on your full name). I only maintain the habit because of my journalistic background - bylines are like gold-dust to me, even if they're on HN ;-) In my case, I back away from "crazies" and flamewars pretty quickly, rema…

The strange thing for me is that my name is a very common one, but my handle is more or less unique. I hand out my personal email address which incorporates my handle, so I'm very easy to Google when using it. By comparison, if I used my real name, I would be practically anonymous, drowned in the sea of other people using my name, including a well-known footballer and a journalist, both of whom generate huge numbers…

That's a great point that hadn't come to mind before. I'm lucky to have an uncommon but not unusual name so it just about works. If my name were more "generic", I would probably take the same route as you.