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U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

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Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#41

Post by Eridrus »

smnrchrds wrote: post #14
bobbytran wrote: post #6

Toronto salaries are less than half than in the US for software developer roles. With the high cost of living, I dont know how anyone can live there.

> ____ salaries are less than half than in the US for software developer roles. You can fill the blank with essentially any non-US location and it would remain correct. Nowhere in the world pays tech workers as much as US does, in absolute or relative terms. Most of the world, Canada included, has priced developer salaries close to engineer salaries. The US is the sole exception where developer salaries are priced cl…

The US is an outlier on this, but that is precisely why it is able to attract employees from the entire world.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#42

Post by nitrogen »

fouc wrote: post #37
yawaramin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toronto may be expensive but it's not SF-level expensive. Salaries may not compare but you don't have to worry about basic things like healthcare and high-powered weaponry in the streets. Those are just the top two–there are many other reasons to move to Canada than just money.

I understand SF folks are paying $500-1,000/mo for healthcare?

Not at high-paying tech companies, those usually cover most or all of insurance.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#43

Post by jorblumesea »

yawaramin wrote: post #15
bencunningham wrote: post #4

Let's not pretend that Canadian cities are a utopia for tech workers. Vancouver and Toronto are insanely expensive and salaries just don't compare to those a hundred kilometres to the south. Hopefully it steadily improves but I'm not hopeful with these tech companies having virtually an unlimited supply and no incentive to boost salaries.

Toronto may be expensive but it's not SF-level expensive. Salaries may not compare but you don't have to worry about basic things like healthcare and high-powered weaponry in the streets. Those are just the top two–there are many other reasons to move to Canada than just money.

Housing prices in YVR or Toronto are similarly out of reach, more so in the case of YVR

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#44

Post by bobfrost »

sg47 wrote: post #38
bobfrost wrote: post #27

I'm at somewhat of a cross-roads related to this matter. Note that this mostly applies to immigrants from India or China. I'm from India. This applies irrespective of education level (I did my Bachelors in the US, just FYI) Currently I'm in the US on a student visa (currently during a period of that visa that permits me to work) that expires in a couple years. I cannot renew it. If I want to continue working in the U…

Now is the time to leave. 18 years in the US with a kid born here. I missed the boat in getting my priority date around the time when my friends were getting theirs (my company was laying off people in other departments and my application got audited). Didn't think it was a big deal at that time. Now, my friends are getting their citizenships and I'm still stuck on a visa. I'm at the whim of the Consul officer and th…

18 years? That's scary.

I'm surprised at the amount of confidence you have in the USCIS that you might get a greed card. If you are still on a visa, I don't see how soon you believe you can get a green card in a reasonable amount of time. I'm not sure you can use the EB-1 category even with an L-1 - unless you're at a very high level in your company. Even for that category, the waitlist is currently about 5 years.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#45

Post by pbourke »

freebee34 wrote: post #31

Taxes in canada are very high. The ontario income tax rate of 53.53% applies at 220K CAD. the equivalent rate for Cali in USD is 34.75%. you then have PST/GST (14%), way fewer deductions and european gas taxes. The one thing that is a good deal in canada is cheap high quality education. The "free" healthcare that you get is not very good and even the for pay services are of surprisingly low quality.

> The "free" healthcare that you get is not very good

Utter bullshit. Source: the many friends and family members who have been treated by the system.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#46

Post by sytelus »

smnrchrds wrote: post #14
bobbytran wrote: post #6

Toronto salaries are less than half than in the US for software developer roles. With the high cost of living, I dont know how anyone can live there.

> ____ salaries are less than half than in the US for software developer roles. You can fill the blank with essentially any non-US location and it would remain correct. Nowhere in the world pays tech workers as much as US does, in absolute or relative terms. Most of the world, Canada included, has priced developer salaries close to engineer salaries. The US is the sole exception where developer salaries are priced cl…

There are no two schools of thought. There are no two "approaches". It's simple economics. Companies don't decide pay X, they have to pay X. In US, there are genuine software products company and software products happen to scale naturally and make a shit ton of money. In most other countries, software engineers are hired merely as IT guys for "main" businesses like insurance or government. They don't scale.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#47

Post by [deleted] »

bobfrost wrote: post #27

I'm at somewhat of a cross-roads related to this matter. Note that this mostly applies to immigrants from India or China. I'm from India. This applies irrespective of education level (I did my Bachelors in the US, just FYI) Currently I'm in the US on a student visa (currently during a period of that visa that permits me to work) that expires in a couple years. I cannot renew it. If I want to continue working in the U…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#49

Post by bobfrost »

bobfrost wrote: post #27

I'm at somewhat of a cross-roads related to this matter. Note that this mostly applies to immigrants from India or China. I'm from India. This applies irrespective of education level (I did my Bachelors in the US, just FYI) Currently I'm in the US on a student visa (currently during a period of that visa that permits me to work) that expires in a couple years. I cannot renew it. If I want to continue working in the U…

Can't seem to edit although it's been For people looking for data backing what I'm talking about, here's[1] something that everyone looks at to track timelines. This data is released monthly. Search for "EMPLOYMENT-BASED PREFERENCES"

In that table you'll see China, India and Mexico specifically called out since they're the ones with such extreme wait times. EB-1 is extremely difficult to qualify for[2] so most people apply for EB-2. You can see currently applications from 2009 are being processed. That was more than a decade ago. Then consider the increase in applications each year since that year. That's where the 100 year figure comes from.

[1]: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...

[2]: https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/permanent-worker...

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#50

Post by barry-cotter »

smnrchrds wrote: post #32
bobbytran wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be fine. If the cost of living matched these lower salaries.

That's what I meant by relative terms. Relative to cost of living, American tech workers get paid much more than any tech workers anywhere else in the world. American tech workers get paid close to American doctors and get to enjoy doctor-level prosperity. Canadian doctors, in relative terms, get paid about as much as American doctors and get to enjoy similar levels of prosperity as them. Canadian tech workers, howev…

> Canadian doctors, in relative terms, get paid about as much as American doctors and get to enjoy similar levels of prosperity as them.

No they don't.

> Canadian doctors still make dramatically less than U.S. counterparts: study

> Despite recent fee hikes, Canadian doctors still lag dramatically far behind their American counterparts in income, according to a new study that also underscores the wide pay gap in both countries between front-line “primary-care” physicians and much-wealthier surgical specialists.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-doctors-still-...

> Anywhere in the world, with the exception of the US, this is the case. US the outlier. Whether it proves the be the outlier that reverts to mean or one that the mean reverts to remains to be seen.

The US has been the richest country in the world in terms of average individual consumption (not income, some small countries like Norway have higher incomes) since independence and before. It's been at the technological frontier since the 1940's at the latest, and very close to it its entire existence. There may be mean reversion in the long run but given the greater share of young people, the best higher education system in the world and a relatively open immigration system there's little reason to believe it'll change anytime soon.

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