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Kids do program – Experiences from the course

sar3.ch

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Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#41

Post by Wowfunhappy »

jessaustin wrote: post #18
jasonkester wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we're talking past each other. Scratch literally has little graphical puzzle pieces that you drag around and dock together to create programs. Beyond that it's pretty similar to the thing I (and you) recommend.

The purpose of the puzzle pieces is to prevent syntax errors, right? Do kids (or anyone, now that I consider the question) really need to deal with syntax errors?

The puzzle pieces:

1. Prevent syntax errors.

2. Remove the need to type on a keyboard.

3. Remove the need to memorize basic commands.

The kids will eventually need to learn #2, but I think it's great that they can do programming in the interim.

#3 will start to come naturally once you've dragged enough if-else blocks in Scratch. Scratch is an on-ramp.

I will point out btw that Scratch is turing-complete.

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#42

Post by jessaustin »

AstralStorm wrote: post #38
jessaustin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of the puzzle pieces is to prevent syntax errors, right? Do kids (or anyone, now that I consider the question) really need to deal with syntax errors?

Yes, just like they do when talking. The problem is not syntax, the problem is that they're bad at typing on a keyboard. I suspect it's mostly because the keyboard is too big and stiff...

Scratch is designed to encourage children, not discourage them. Syntax errors are the bane of learning to program for the first time.

As sibling comment indicates, it's also good to be able to code on a tablet, but I didn't think that would be as convincing to parent who seems opposed to graphical interfaces in general.

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#43

Post by gowld »

freediver wrote: post #21
szopa wrote: post #2

Scratch is right now my 6yo's favorite toy. It beats the Lego robot because you don't have to worry about having the right parts and you can concentrate on the "fun parts," that is programming. What really amazes me was how different the progression looked from what I was expecting. The move from "the dinosaur moves and that is fun" to fully fleshed mini games took me by surprise. No linearity there. What I really ap…

As someone who has started programming at age 8, I find Scratch inadequate. It may teach kids how to code, but it doesn't teach coding. There is something in writing every letter of a command when you are a kid. There is something that gets born inside when you write and execute this for the first time: 10 PRINT "HELLO" 20 GOTO 10 RUN My kid is 8 now and I plan to introduce her to an online C64 emulator and BASIC. If…

Why are loops better with line numbers and typed commands? This just screams nostalgia.

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#44

Post by gowld »

freediver wrote: post #24
teekert wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it does not stick, there is nothing that Scratch will be able to do. Those are some pretty strong words. Did you do any research on this topic?

No, just intuitevely. Hard to imagine becoming a great cook by pointing and clicking. Or a great pianist by pointing and clicking. A big part of what makes us human is what continous practice does to our brains.

Your ability to dismiss something you know nothing about is impressive, as is your focus on superficial interfaces over deep semantic content.

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#45

Post by teekert »

racl101 wrote: post #27
freediver wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, just intuitevely. Hard to imagine becoming a great cook by pointing and clicking. Or a great pianist by pointing and clicking. A big part of what makes us human is what continous practice does to our brains.

Have to agree with this. I find that Scratch removes the dangers and perils of programming for any level, which, unfortunately, are the parts that you learn the most from. Think about when you began to code. You tried printing 'Hello World' and that was good. Then you tried doing some more, and quickly ran into some trouble. At this crucial point, is where you are bound to learn the most. Troubleshooting is part and…

You mean like how toy cars remove the dangers and perils of driving an actual car? Or how plastic cutlery removes the dangers and perils of sharp steel cutlery?
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