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F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

reuters.com

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Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#41

Post by clSTophEjUdRanu »

divbyzer0 wrote: post #7
yborg wrote: post #6

The functioning or non-functioning of the logistics system for the F-35 is largely irrelevant, as just demonstrated Lockheed is paid whether it works or not; and non-functioning is much safer for the program, as non-flying F-35s are safe from combat and accidents. In fact, low availability just provides an excuse for the Air Force to demand additional budget for aircraft. This isn't so much a combat system as a corpo…

(with my tin-foil hat securely fastened) I've always had a suspicion that the generous piles of cash thrown at the F-35 program was really going to two programs: 1) A well-publicised cover (F-35) 2) A secret Skunk Works project like F-117, SR-71 But a corporate welfare program as you suggest is more likely.

It's such a good corporate welfare program that it produced an actual good aircraft.

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#42

Post by clSTophEjUdRanu »

ISL wrote: post #20
pixelface wrote: post #3

"ODIN will be based in the cloud and designed to deliver data in near real time on aircraft and system performance under heightened cyber security provisions, Lord said. " heart warming to see us draw ever closer to the cyberpunk dystopia of my childhood dreams.

A few EMP bursts can demolish the cloud, at least as we civilians know it.

How do you get EMP bursts powerful enough to do that?

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#44

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

divbyzer0 wrote: post #7
yborg wrote: post #6

The functioning or non-functioning of the logistics system for the F-35 is largely irrelevant, as just demonstrated Lockheed is paid whether it works or not; and non-functioning is much safer for the program, as non-flying F-35s are safe from combat and accidents. In fact, low availability just provides an excuse for the Air Force to demand additional budget for aircraft. This isn't so much a combat system as a corpo…

(with my tin-foil hat securely fastened) I've always had a suspicion that the generous piles of cash thrown at the F-35 program was really going to two programs: 1) A well-publicised cover (F-35) 2) A secret Skunk Works project like F-117, SR-71 But a corporate welfare program as you suggest is more likely.

Why not have both?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Aurora#U.S._sighting_c...

(Evidence of something moving around Mach 5 at high altitude, rattling the rocks, captured by seismic equipment since the 90ies. Overton Window has now been open long enough for Lockheed Martin to tentatively present https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_SR-72 as something new.)

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#45

Post by TeMPOraL »

imtringued wrote: post #38
LoSboccacc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> airpower projection is via unmanned systems I'm unconvinced by this assessment, for one they haven't had symmetrical warfare in a long time and a pilot is way harder to jam. for another long range laser ciws systems are getting more and more effective and if you armor cheap unmanned system they stop being cheap. but ultimately they have limited payload option and you can always pack more countermeasures than the en…

Honestly non fully autonomous UAVs are going to drop like flies if they encounter a F-35. People seem to fail to understand that the F-35 is also an advanced ECM platform. What is that drone going to do once its connection to the remote base is cut?

Home in on the loudest RF source and try to ram it?

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#46

Post by nabla9 »

clSTophEjUdRanu wrote: post #41
divbyzer0 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(with my tin-foil hat securely fastened) I've always had a suspicion that the generous piles of cash thrown at the F-35 program was really going to two programs: 1) A well-publicised cover (F-35) 2) A secret Skunk Works project like F-117, SR-71 But a corporate welfare program as you suggest is more likely.

It's such a good corporate welfare program that it produced an actual good aircraft.

It's more worker/voter welfare than corporate welfare. Socialism for the middle class.

Lockheed Martin's long term profit margin is around 6-7 percent (recently above 9%). Lockheed pays more wages than it makes profits.

If you count the whole value chain, with contractors and their subcontractors, it's probably something like 50% total worker compensation (wages, benefits), 10% profits, 10% cost of capital, rest is taxes, real estate, energy and raw materials.

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#47

Post by chiefalchemist »

divbyzer0 wrote: post #7
yborg wrote: post #6

The functioning or non-functioning of the logistics system for the F-35 is largely irrelevant, as just demonstrated Lockheed is paid whether it works or not; and non-functioning is much safer for the program, as non-flying F-35s are safe from combat and accidents. In fact, low availability just provides an excuse for the Air Force to demand additional budget for aircraft. This isn't so much a combat system as a corpo…

(with my tin-foil hat securely fastened) I've always had a suspicion that the generous piles of cash thrown at the F-35 program was really going to two programs: 1) A well-publicised cover (F-35) 2) A secret Skunk Works project like F-117, SR-71 But a corporate welfare program as you suggest is more likely.

No tinfoil hat required. Not only was this guy a famous general, he was the POTUS as well. The Military Industrial Complex is very real.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9QXjBVC233s

The Afghanistan Papers - which dropped off the mainstream media's radar almost instantly - is further evidence it's alive and well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/...

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#48

Post by chiefalchemist »

wolfgke wrote: post #27
ptero wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real work is (comparably) cheap. With F35 budget well over a trillion dollars this is 2-3 orders of magnitude larger than needed to fund maximum number of projects Skunk works can sustain, at max manpower. It is bureaucratic waste with minimum productive output. My 2c.

> Skunk works can sustain, at max manpower. It is bureaucratic waste with minimum productive output. My 2c. Isn't the idea of skunkwork projects exactly to avoid bureaucratic waste for the sake of radical innovation?! Let me give three quotes from https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Skunkworks_projec... : "A skunkworks project is a project developed by a relatively small and loosely structured group of people…

Isn't the idea of skunkwork projects exactly to avoid bureaucratic waste for the sake of radical innovation?

In the true sense of the word, yes. However, the MIC and the budgets that support it have their own working definition. It's not about the ends/results, It's about the means (swallowing more and more budget).

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#49

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

clSTophEjUdRanu wrote: post #42
ISL wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few EMP bursts can demolish the cloud, at least as we civilians know it.

How do you get EMP bursts powerful enough to do that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_nuclear_explosio...

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#50

Post by ptero »

wolfgke wrote: post #35
stan_rogers wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's exactly what the post you are responding to said. Read it again: it says that the money is far more than skunkworks could possibly spend, so it's far more likely that the evaporating money is being boiled away by ordinary bureaucratic waste with nothing to show for it.

I am no native speaker of English, but at > Skunk works can sustain, at max manpower. It is bureaucratic waste with minimum productive output. to me, "it" seems to refer to "[s]kunk work" and referring to skunk work with respect to "max manpower" does not sound like skunk work to me, but throwing lots of cooperate ressources (instead of a small elite team) at the project.

The poster you are responding to is correct. Sorry, I could have been clearer in wording and "it"s.

Skunkworks is great, but works while it is small and nimble. Fund it fully. But this could cost billions, tens of billions at most. Not trillions that have been spent on F-35.

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