Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Engineer-Driven culture at Nokia and its problems

bits.blogs.nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 61 posts

Re: The Engineer-Driven culture at Nokia and its problems

#41

Post by asmithmd1 »

aphexairlines wrote: post #31

Great, another article pushing the viewpoint that hardware and software doesn't matter, that investment in technology is a waste of time, that what really matters is slick marketing and pretty packaging. What do they think makes the iPhone battery last more than 20 minutes or an Android app pop up on your phone when you click install on their pc website -- pixie dust?

I worked at Black & Decker when product engineer deservedly took back seat to marketing as the premier discipline.

Makita was cleaning B&D's clock in the marketplace and all engineering could say was, "But ours test better than Makita's"

Joe Galli took a dozen of the best Black & Decker tools; changed the housings from grey to yellow, and changed the labels from B&D to DeWalt. He hired a dozen new college grads to drive around to job sites and sales took off like crazy. The exact same tools labeled and sold differently outsold Makita. In a strategy masterstroke, when Makita dropped their price he sued them for dumping products on the US for below cost.

It was a true marketing breakthrough -- engineering had nothing to do with it.

Re: The Engineer-Driven culture at Nokia and its problems

#42

Post by stcredzero »

wooster wrote: post #14
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #4

"Some Nokia employees continually disparage Apple, internally calling it The California Fruit Company," he said. Classy. Nothing quite like mocking one of the companies that's been ripping you limb from limb for the past three-and-a-half years.

That's funny. We'd tell people we worked for a fruit company in Cupertino.

Say it like Forrest Gump!

Re: The Engineer-Driven culture at Nokia and its problems

#43

Post by asmithmd1 »

thingie wrote: post #36
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #4

"Some Nokia employees continually disparage Apple, internally calling it The California Fruit Company," he said. Classy. Nothing quite like mocking one of the companies that's been ripping you limb from limb for the past three-and-a-half years.

As if "funny" nicknames weren't almost the norm all around the globe. Would you be surprised to learn that Apple employees call Nokia the log makers from Finland or something like that? I wouldn't.

I would be surprised if Nokia ever gets mentioned at Apple. Apple has Android in their rear-view mirror -- Nokia is not even on the same lap.

Re: The Engineer-Driven culture at Nokia and its problems

#44

Post by stcredzero »

stretchwithme wrote: post #22
JanezStupar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When ifanboy and droidroolers mock Nokia - its for a good reason, since majority of people agree that Nokia's smartphones suck. While when Nokia's employees or fans mock ifanboys's and doridroolers's toys - its just, well sad.

is the smart phones dumb or is the really dumb phones sorta smart for a dumb phone?

I wonder if Nokia is in a position to blur the lines between smart phones and feature phones? This could be done with only a moderate increase in the resources in each phone. The hard part would be establishing the software ecosystem and getting the carriers to follow.

As pointed out elsewhere in these comments, Nokia has a huge chunk of market in the rest of the world. If they could blur the lines between smart phone and feature phones, they could easily disrupt the smartphone market in developing markets, before it can even come to being. Think about it, people in Africa are using SMS services the way we use Apps. Even though this is uglier, it works great in their situation, because the vehicle fits the terrain much better.

The time lag between the developed world and the developing world is like having a telescope that can look into the future. If Nokia can't capitalize on their position and this kind of foresight, then it's a damn shame. (My money is that someone in India and/or China will see the same opportunity and disrupt all of Apple/Android/WP7/Blackberry/Nokia in this way.)

Re: The Engineer-Driven culture at Nokia and its problems

#45

Post by tomjen3 »

greyman wrote: post #25
bad_user wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but Microsoft? If this partnership succeeds it would be the exception.

What is wrong with WP7, except of the lack of apps? Or what is wrong with Microsoft in terms of providing developer tools or marketing support for their products and 3rd party programmers?

The price.

Nokia now has to pay for the license to their mobile software as well as the hardware while everybody else only have to pay for the hardware.

Re: The Engineer-Driven culture at Nokia and its problems

#46

Post by [deleted] »

stcredzero wrote: post #39
statictype wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's been ripping you limb from limb for the past three-and-a-half years. Even though Nokia was never really popular in America, they had and still have an incredibly strong presence in other regions - especially Asia which has a robust mobile market. Sure, their smart phones don't compare to what iOS or Android offers, but there's a ton of people out there who aren't using phones like those. I carry an iPhone 3GS…

I think your point is a very good one. But I think there are some important parallels to consider here. Even though Windows was less popular with designers, Microsoft still dominated the business computer market in other areas. Sure, until recently their desktop OS didn't compare to what OS X or Linux offers, but there's a ton of people out there who aren't using OS like those. I use a Macbook and friends are always…

[deleted]

Re: The Engineer-Driven culture at Nokia and its problems

#47

Post by stcredzero »

krig wrote: post #20
r0h4n wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot picture Gates as the alpha male leader. He is a intelligent leader, but alpha male leader?

Here's my theory: I think the key is that he, just like Jobs, is a leader who feels strongly about the product. There are lots of stories about how people would dread presenting ideas to Gates because he'd be brutally honest with how he felt about them. Same thing goes for Jobs - they care deeply that the product is good, so middle management is forced to focus on actually making good product. Whereas most CEOs and m…

I've noticed this in a few assistants I've hired. I've had to train them away from CYA thinking and have gone through a few iterations to get them towards goal and value oriented thinking.

Example: When asked to "arrange a meeting" with the web consultant, my assistant left all of the choices up to me and didn't try to get any information exchange out of the way ahead of time by email and using our website. I've had to explain that our meeting had certain goals, and that she should think independently to achieve them. Instead, she just took "Cover My Ass" actions by demonstrating that she was taking actions "trying" to move toward those and left all the decisions up to me. I had to explain that the value they produced for me was in minimizing the communications I was involved in and exercising her intelligence and common sense.

Basically, a company has real success by creating real value. Employees that focus on process are focusing on covering their ass and not on the goal of producing real value.

Re: The Engineer-Driven culture at Nokia and its problems

#48

Post by statictype »

stcredzero wrote: post #39
statictype wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's been ripping you limb from limb for the past three-and-a-half years. Even though Nokia was never really popular in America, they had and still have an incredibly strong presence in other regions - especially Asia which has a robust mobile market. Sure, their smart phones don't compare to what iOS or Android offers, but there's a ton of people out there who aren't using phones like those. I carry an iPhone 3GS…

I think your point is a very good one. But I think there are some important parallels to consider here. Even though Windows was less popular with designers, Microsoft still dominated the business computer market in other areas. Sure, until recently their desktop OS didn't compare to what OS X or Linux offers, but there's a ton of people out there who aren't using OS like those. I use a Macbook and friends are always…

Nice one. Obviously there are parallels with Microsoft. Both were big entrenched companies that got their lunch money stolen by Apple, but in both cases I reject the notion that Apple has been 'tearing them limb by limb'.

Re: The Engineer-Driven culture at Nokia and its problems

#49

Post by statictype »

wsf wrote: post #34
aphexairlines wrote: post #31

Great, another article pushing the viewpoint that hardware and software doesn't matter, that investment in technology is a waste of time, that what really matters is slick marketing and pretty packaging. What do they think makes the iPhone battery last more than 20 minutes or an Android app pop up on your phone when you click install on their pc website -- pixie dust?

> "Because of the hardware similarities, the major differences of these devices appear within the software - specifically, the design, functionally and experience of the software." It's not saying that hardware and software doesn't matter. According to their definition, Nokia lost because design (software) is secondary to hardware (engineering). Actually, the article brought up a very good point: "In comparison to ea…

And what do they look identical to? The original iphone.

Kind of a tangent here, but the reason they look identical to the iPhone is partly because the iPhone is so well designed but also because the competition is completely unimaginative.

Is the full-screen + one button the last word in smart phone design? I hope not.

Post reply on HN