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The Rise of Coffee

americanscientist.org

41–50 of 52 posts

Re: The Rise of Coffee

#41
post #17

Coffee (and tea) have some antimicrobial action. They made it safer to drink the water, and did not have the disadvantages of the other alternative, alcoholic drinks.

They do have some antimicrobial effects, but the "made it safe to drink water because nobody in the world could find clean drinking water until the 19th century" idea is a myth. Mainly people drank different things for different purposes. Water was clarifying, ale, whisky and tea were fortifying (beer was basically a source of calories), wine got you closer to the gods, coffee basically got you high / was an energy d…

Except it's not a myth. For centuries mead, ale or small (low alcohol) beer were the standard drinks throughout the day, occasionally cider from crab and wild apples for the poorest. Wine for those with a little more means. Tea and coffee were for the wealthy until the 19th century, and something to add the drug of choice, sugar, to. Something for the great and the good in the tea rooms and coffee houses of London, until they arrived in huge quantities bringing prices down to commodity level.

Awareness of microbes, boiling for sterility, and water treatment was a long time coming. Water was clean if far enough upstream, or you had a pristine well. In towns and cities, forget it. :)

Re: The Rise of Coffee

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have some antimicrobial effects, but the "made it safe to drink water because nobody in the world could find clean drinking water until the 19th century" idea is a myth. Mainly people drank different things for different purposes. Water was clarifying, ale, whisky and tea were fortifying (beer was basically a source of calories), wine got you closer to the gods, coffee basically got you high / was an energy d…

Except it's not a myth. For centuries mead, ale or small (low alcohol) beer were the standard drinks throughout the day, occasionally cider from crab and wild apples for the poorest. Wine for those with a little more means. Tea and coffee were for the wealthy until the 19th century, and something to add the drug of choice, sugar, to. Something for the great and the good in the tea rooms and coffee houses of London, u…

This appears to be focused on post-15th century America and England; I was talking about world history, where each of these drinks' use predates Western social interpretations. But you're right that economic status often dictated social behavior, and so different things were drank by different social strata, but often because that's just what a person of that social class would do. Tea was originally treated as a very high social strata drink, but by the 18th century nearly all colonial americans were drinking it, up until the revolution supplanted it with alternatives like coffee.

Cities and towns have often historically been located next to rivers not only for transportation, but for agriculture, to remove waste, and for people to drink it. In order to have a "city" you have to solve the transportation of waste, which involves getting in water, and evidence for this goes back well before 3,000BC. The locations for cities were often chosen for good water quality, or avoided due to poor water quality. If water wasn't nearby, they'd pipe it in, and it they couldn't do that, they'd dig wells, often hundreds of em. In Rome, access to water completely transformed the idea of a city and built the biggest one in history up to that point. Cities often had not only public wells, but also fountains specifically for both drinking and hand-washing.

Some famous cities in history had poor access to water, and as they grew they suffered due to a lack of sanitation and clean water. But that has nothing to do with who drank what or for what purpose. All societies have drank different things for different reasons, but almost never due to an inability to get drinking water.

Even today, remote villages that are barely touched by modern man don't boil water or drink alcohol or tea. They just drink straight-up water, and 100,000 years of evolution has proved the idea that we figured out how not to die from it.

Re: The Rise of Coffee

#44
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty easy to break through the physiological symptoms of caffeine withdrawal, but more difficult to stick to not drinking it, I find.

The headaches are pretty bad.

Having been addicted to caffeine and nicotine I found the migranes were equivalent, only with nicotine it would be every 30 minutes after injesting rather than 5 hours.

In both cases they were gone after about a week or two, but I could see how it would be difficult for people who have an easy time smoking (low vs high sin taxes, happen to be at places where you can smoke all the time like your own car and home vs. a restrictive apartment and public transit, whether or not your friends also smoke all the time). My addiction was only for about 2-3 years, too, not half a lifetime like with some people.

Re: The Rise of Coffee

#45
post #36

I'm so glad I'm not dependent.

There's good parts & bad parts. I can get ornery without it, but I really like having something I look forward to so much.

Having never gotten into the habit, I just don't see the point. I understand that some people feel like they need it to function properly, but isn't that easily solved by getting more sleep?

Instead of staying up late doing things, I just go to bed and do those things in the morning. I find I don't waste as much time and I'm excited to wake up. Rolling out of bed is much easier when video games or a good book is waiting for me. I guess coffee could fill that, but I guess it's not as interesting to me as a hobby.

Re: The Rise of Coffee

#46
post #4

Any basic budget advice says to cut starbucks out of your life and make your $5 latte at home, but why stop there? Caffeine pills work out to $0.05/cup-equivalent, aren't going to make you take bathroom trips, aren't going to give you bad breath, and aren't going to stain your teeth. I usually keep a few in my pocket in case I get randomly drowsy in a meeting or if I'm driving far. I haven't looked back, and I used t…

Why rely on caffeine instead of just getting more sleep? Go to bed earlier and do your nighttime hobbies or whatever in the morning. It saves money and time since I'm actually excited to get out of bed in the morning.

Re: The Rise of Coffee

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it's not a myth. For centuries mead, ale or small (low alcohol) beer were the standard drinks throughout the day, occasionally cider from crab and wild apples for the poorest. Wine for those with a little more means. Tea and coffee were for the wealthy until the 19th century, and something to add the drug of choice, sugar, to. Something for the great and the good in the tea rooms and coffee houses of London, u…

This appears to be focused on post-15th century America and England; I was talking about world history, where each of these drinks' use predates Western social interpretations. But you're right that economic status often dictated social behavior, and so different things were drank by different social strata, but often because that's just what a person of that social class would do. Tea was originally treated as a ver…

Not at all. Where you solve the transportation of waste and getting in water through the river, only the most upstream city was getting potable water, downstream was after washing and waste went in. Wells frequently went down to a polluted or at least unsafe water table. Wells out of the towns and cities were generally safer. Few if any towns were the sole town on a river.

Tea was initially an elite drink in China, the expense in part explaining the rise of the rituals and ceremonies (and lots of equipment) surrounding it. Much the same happened with coffee.

Rome was indeed an exception thanks to their development and aqueducts, but that potable water was coming from well outside the city. In the outlying regions of the empire, without that infrastructure, wine seems to have been the usual, and water for bathing.

Remote enough is akin to upstream enough -- with no shite, washing and other pollutants, getting potable water from a remote spring or well is perfectly feasible.

Re: The Rise of Coffee

#48
post #29

The huge variety of unique flavors in coffee from different origins is quite amazing and even now just beginning to be explored. You can now create specific flavors in real time by roasting, grinding and brewing every cup robotically with advanced algorithms at www.sevacoffee.com

That machine is very interesting! If you own one of them, would you mind sharing how roast chamber works? I've thought a bit about how that could be done in a fully-automated fashion, but I'm curious to see what solution they came up with.

Roasting immediately before brewing is not a great idea.

I've been roasting my own beans for 20 years, and one of the first things I learned is that hardly any beans are at their best right after roasting. Freshly roasted is OK, but the beans are outgassing for some time after that. 2-3 days rest after roasting improves the flavor of just about any coffee, especially the fruity dry process Ethiopians I like.

Feel free to email me (address in profile) if you'd like to talk about home roasting - always happy to kick it around with anyone interested.

Also visit https://www.sweetmarias.com/ for lots of information about green coffee and roasting, grinding, and brewing equipment. (I am not affiliated with them at all, just a long time customer.)

Re: The Rise of Coffee

#49
post #9
post #4

Any basic budget advice says to cut starbucks out of your life and make your $5 latte at home, but why stop there? Caffeine pills work out to $0.05/cup-equivalent, aren't going to make you take bathroom trips, aren't going to give you bad breath, and aren't going to stain your teeth. I usually keep a few in my pocket in case I get randomly drowsy in a meeting or if I'm driving far. I haven't looked back, and I used t…

> and roast my beans I'm confused. If you were at a level where you were roasting your own beans, I would think that was because you enjoyed the taste of coffee. You enjoyed it so much that you went out of your way to track down non-roasted beans and roast them yourself. This is not an act of cheapness, this is a labor of love. And you decided, "Nah, I just want caffeine. This bean juice is for suckers"? As a coffee…

> As a coffee lover myself, how/why did you make that jump?

My reasons are right there in the original post: "bathroom trips... bad breath... stain your teeth". Those things become more obnoxious as I aged.

Throw away java ;-)

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