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What to do if you’re stopped by the police

cassandraxia.com

41–50 of 194 posts

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#41
post #29

Former cop here. The article states "You cannot lie to the police". This is, generally, incorrect. Some jurisdictions may have some specific law, but other than certain exceptions, lying has no general consequence. If it did, there would be a lot more charges against pretty much everyone who has been arrested. In my experience, people will lie about stuff that's not even relevant, or helpful to them. Exceptions inclu…

IANAL but my understanding was that lying to the police opens you up to obstruction of justice charges -- or perjury. For instance, I learned from law professor James Duane's video that Martha Stewart would have completely avoided prison time if she had not lied to investigators. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&feature=emb_titl...

She lied to federal investigators. That's illegal. Lying to local or state police, not so much.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying in court is always* illegal. Lying in general, e.g "I didn't steal anything", "I only had 2 beers", "These aren't my pants", is not inherently illegal. All of these are lies I've been told. As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over. Any defense attorney can bring that one time you got caught lying up in court, discounting your entire testimon…

> Lying in court is always* illegal. So if you plead not guilty to some crime, and they find you guilty, do you get prosecuted for lying in court with your plead as well as for the original crime?

[deleted]

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#43
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but my understanding was that lying to the police opens you up to obstruction of justice charges -- or perjury. For instance, I learned from law professor James Duane's video that Martha Stewart would have completely avoided prison time if she had not lied to investigators. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&feature=emb_titl...

Lying in court is always* illegal. Lying in general, e.g "I didn't steal anything", "I only had 2 beers", "These aren't my pants", is not inherently illegal. All of these are lies I've been told. As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over. Any defense attorney can bring that one time you got caught lying up in court, discounting your entire testimon…

In Brazilian (Roman?) law, you can lie if you are one of the sides, not if you are a witness.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#44
post #2

I really appreciate something more like this, with more countries included other than USA, like: India / China / Russia

In many countries, the answers get really complicated, really quickly, and can vary based on location and other factors.

For instance in NSW Australia, you may be cautioned by police that “You have the right to remain silent. Anything you do say will be taken down and may be used in evidence against you. It may harm your defence if you fail to mention something now which you later rely on in court.” [1][2]

The impact of this is incredibly complicated, and it'll take a lawyer to fully explain it. Which, if you don't have one on hand when you're questioned - can be a major issue.

[1] http://theconversation.com/when-you-say-nothing-at-all-nsw-a... [2] https://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/oppn-slammed-...

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#45

> "I'm going to remain silent. I'd like to see a lawyer." On TV shows, the guy would then call his lawyer, who is under a retainer or something. The lawyer has all the context on exactly what's going on, and tells him exactly what to do, and he gets off free. But as someone who doesn't have a lawyer, what exactly happens if and when the cop agrees to this? Are they obligated to provide me with a lawyer? Or do I need…

The ACLU's advice on this question is:

> Once you say that you want to talk to a lawyer, officers should stop asking you questions. If they continue to ask questions, you still have the right to remain silent. If you do not have a lawyer, you may still tell the officer you want to speak to one before answering questions. If you do have a lawyer, keep his or her business card with you.

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter...

In many countries the police would provide you with contact information for publicly-funded duty lawyers who can help in this emergency (assuming you are under arrest, and not just free to walk away). Sounds like in the US, it would be wise to do a bit of research and check if there are any emergency services like that in your area.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#46

Main problem with this advice is, I can either assert my rights on principle, be detained, possibly held in lockup, deal with the lawyers and courts... Or I can just let them look in my empty trunk. I say this with full awareness of how fucked up it is, but your bet is to be white and polite.

Former cop here: You're right on the first part.

Until you realize your friend left his gym bag with weed in it in your trunk. That looks bad man, and comes back on you. My best seizures came from consent searches. I've also had cars that I've stopped where I was darn sure they were moving something in it, but I didnt have PC, and I didn't have a dog nearby that I could get in reasonable time. I asked for consent, and got told "No" in no uncertain terms. They left on their merry way, and I still wonder sometimes if a compartment full of stolen guns was in that dang car.

Sometimes we have a reason to be suspicious, sometimes were just guessing. Just to account for confirmation bias, I'd ask for consent to search completely randomly. Sometimes I got it, spent 10 seconds searching, and was done. Sometimes I didn't and said have a nice day. Sometimes I got the consent and a stolen gun and some hard narcotics

There have been a few cases where we had enough PC to search a residence, and asked for consent. Each time it was an unusual circumstance (e.g. the roomate was selling drugs or wanted or something). Each time we were in and out in 10 minutes. If we had been told to get a warrant, we would've had to detain the home owner (which in this case means hang out with him in our car or in his yard, casually talking and killing time) while we go to get a warrant.

This means driving to the magistrates office 45 minutes away, writing the affidavit, waiting in line, doing the hearing, then driving back, maybe 2-3 hours total. If during that time the homeowner goes "Hey, screw this, just search it", we won't, as we don't want it to seem like coercion. Once consent is denied, we aren't going forward without a warrant.

So again, general rule, "Dont talk to the police, assert your rights". Except when maybe you should. If you come home and your spouse is missing and blood is everywhere, you are a suspect. Heck, at the beginning, you are probably THE suspect, but you may want to talk to the cops to help them figure out where your wife went. If the cops want to look in your house for a stolen gun that your shady roommate allegedly stole, it may be BS to just search your house, or they may just want to check that 1 room, get that stolen gun, and go.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#47

Good advice, and that "Don't Talk to the Police" video is a classic must-watch for everyone who comes of age in the US. One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct s…

“ One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct statement is a lie, anyways.”

This is really bad advice. You need to re-watch the video you alluded to in your first paragraph.

You do not talk to police. Period. Unless you are asking a.) if you are being detained or b.) asking if you are being placed under arrest. Or to state your legal name.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#48
post #2

I really appreciate something more like this, with more countries included other than USA, like: India / China / Russia

A crash course on whether to offer a bribe, how much is customary, and the manner in which such an offering is made really ought to be included with the SkyMall magazine.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#49

> "I'm going to remain silent. I'd like to see a lawyer." On TV shows, the guy would then call his lawyer, who is under a retainer or something. The lawyer has all the context on exactly what's going on, and tells him exactly what to do, and he gets off free. But as someone who doesn't have a lawyer, what exactly happens if and when the cop agrees to this? Are they obligated to provide me with a lawyer? Or do I need…

Anything you say after "I want a lawyer" isn't admissable in court. A smart cop would end their questioning there.

Sadly, this is not true. The police can say you were joking and some (racist) judges believe it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02...

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My rule of thumb is to treat cops the way I'd like to be treated if I was in their shoes. Which is to say, with a pleasant but firm demeanor. I don't consent to searches and I don't volunteer much of any information, but I treat them as respectfully as I'd treat any other stranger I encountered. Pleasant smiles, "have a nice day", etc. The same as I'd treat a retail worker. My brother pulled the "AM I BEING DETAINED"…

What an amateur. Your brother should have told the officer his traffic stop was unconstitional, under the 1st amendment, because his driving is a form of self-expression.

I know right? He didn't even cite maritime law and claim to be 'traveling'!
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