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Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

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Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#41

Post by splitrocket »

gridlockd wrote: post #16

The headline is factually wrong. The truth is that Finland has reduced the population of homeless by 35% over ten years[1]. While I applaud easing the bureaucratic hurdles in giving people access to homes, in many cases not being offered a home is not the reason why people are homeless. It's simply not "as easy as that". [1] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle...

Logically, your argument is baffling on its face: homelessness is literally the condition of not having a home. Giving someone a home literally solves the problem.

All that said, "Housing First" is the most effective, lowest cost, evidence based program we have to substantially lower homelessness. It works, and it's vastly cheaper than both the status quo ( https://www.centerforhealthjournalism.org/resources/lessons/... ) and just about everything else we've tried.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First#Evidence_and_out...

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#42

Post by retrac »

rwem wrote: post #5
maxharris wrote: post #3

I take issue with the practice of labeling everyone on the street as "homeless", because the truth is that there are many different causes: * battered spouses fleeing domestic violence * runaway teenagers * veterans whose mental and physical injuries * debilitating mental illness * impossibly high housing costs due to NIMBYism and local regulations * alcoholism, drug, gambling addiction That's not an exhaustive list,…

"We need labels that strike at the heart of each issue" That's pretty much the opposite of the "housing first" approach.

While I'd say it's generally been successful, the experiments with housing first programs here in Canada have failed some specific categories of people pretty badly.

In Calgary and London, people with serious mental illness in particular would get an apartment, only to end up facing eviction before long because of conflicts with neighbours or property damage. Some were housed for less than a month before eviction.

Someone with active psychosis, someone with substantial market income but fleeing an abusive partner, and someone with a stable social and personal situation but who simply can't afford rent on their fixed pension, all require different interventions to keep them stably housed in the long run.

"Housing first" has a habit of being "housing only" support, which works for many people but not for everyone.

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#43

Post by commandlinefan »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #28

For some perspective: Finalnd's military budget: 300 million US military budget: 700 BILLION The US could dump a lot of money into these social services to address people who are homeless, drug addicts, and other people on the fringes of society. We are however, constantly put in a place where other nations depend on us for their security. As such, they don't have to have a massive defensive budget when they can rely…

Assuming, of course, that if Finland had to provide for its own defense (rather than relying on us), they would still have money left over for social programs.

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#44

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

throwlaplace wrote: post #33
armonge wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have your own opinion and think it's failling, or you can see the results.

every time there's a hopeful article about a progressive policy on hn there's some kind of backwards libertarian hottake in the comments. it's simultaneously offensive and demoralizing. the finnish program (according to the article) has been running since 2008. do you really think your hottake (op to whom you responded) is a novel insight? that you in the 30s of writing that comment cut to the core flaw of the progra…

I don't really get what's libertarian about a claim that the term "homelessness" conflates issues which are best handled separately. Can you elaborate?

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#45

Post by calmworm »

throwlaplace wrote: post #39
metalrain wrote: post #27

While homelessness might be in decline and shelters have more capacity, you can still find people sleeping on the floors of public pay-per-use toilets in Finland. So no, homelessness is not ended and probably never will be.

Lol and polio and measles will never be eradicated either because we still have cases. oh wait there's a reason why they haven't been eradicated hmmmmm.

I don’t see the connection. What is the point you are trying to make here?

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#46

Post by _jal »

soulofmischief wrote: post #36
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the US in fact spending less money on homelessness, though? My guess would be that it's spending a comparable amount on a per-person basis.

The US citizen sees a fraction of their tax dollar ever actually reach the ground. The rest gets caught up in people's pockets on the way down. We would need to adjust for this but it's unclear how to create a heuristic.

Do you have evidence that there's more friction/graft in the US than, say, Finland?

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#47

Post by pjc50 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #22
maxharris wrote: post #2

To help contextualize this so I understand the situation better, can someone compare and contrast what treatment for debilitating mental health issues such as schizophrenia looks like in Finland vs. the US? The second issue is, In the last 10 years, the “Housing First” programme provided 4,600 homes in Finland. In 2017 there were still about 1,900 people living on the streets . In the US, there are something like hal…

They never had Reagan, so they still treat mental illness there. More importantly, Finland allows for the involuntary commitment if the mentally ill. In the US, this is only allowed if the individual presents a danger to themselves or others.

That's almost what the Finnish system requires: https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10138/231986/comp...

"The current Finnish Mental Health Act stipulates thefollowing criteria for compulsory admission:

.a person should be found to have a psychotic illness,and

.because of this psychosis, they are

(.in need of psychiatric care as their condition would otherwise worsen [this is the main different criterion], or

.a danger to their own health or welfare, or

.a danger to the health or welfare of others)

.no other mental health services are suitable or adequate

(Finland of course has proper free at the point of use healthcare for all residents, a far more important point for mental health than involuntary commitment.)

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#48

Post by vesinisa »

metalrain wrote: post #27

While homelessness might be in decline and shelters have more capacity, you can still find people sleeping on the floors of public pay-per-use toilets in Finland. So no, homelessness is not ended and probably never will be.

What a ridiculous headline indeed. Yes, homelessness is under control and declining compared to 1990s, among other thanks to free harm reduction based housing for drug users (read: free housing for drug users and drunks in municipal facility where using drugs and drinking is not forbidden.)

But it's not gone. Homelessness is not really possible to solve definitely.

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#49

Post by 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #22
maxharris wrote: post #2

To help contextualize this so I understand the situation better, can someone compare and contrast what treatment for debilitating mental health issues such as schizophrenia looks like in Finland vs. the US? The second issue is, In the last 10 years, the “Housing First” programme provided 4,600 homes in Finland. In 2017 there were still about 1,900 people living on the streets . In the US, there are something like hal…

They never had Reagan, so they still treat mental illness there. More importantly, Finland allows for the involuntary commitment if the mentally ill. In the US, this is only allowed if the individual presents a danger to themselves or others.

It still amazes me that we closed down virtually all mental istitutions in the US, and then we’re surprised to see mentally ill people struggling on the streets?

According to research almost half of the homeless have a mental illness, with about 25% having a very serious one[1].

If you’ve ever been walking down SF you know exactly who that 25% is. They’re on the street and they need an institution not a needle exchange or free boarding.

1. https://mentalillnesspolicy.org/consequences/homeless-mental...

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#50

Post by nabla9 »

metalrain wrote: post #27

While homelessness might be in decline and shelters have more capacity, you can still find people sleeping on the floors of public pay-per-use toilets in Finland. So no, homelessness is not ended and probably never will be.

There is temporary homeless. Some people may not be seeking home. People still drunk or under influence of drugs you may be denied access to temporary shelters and don't want to go into those who let them in because they are full of drunks and people out of their mind (hard to sleep).

One problem facing the social system is that people in need are not seeking all the support they need. This is the reason why assigned social worker who sees the whole picture is important.

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