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People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

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Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#41

Post by astuyvenberg »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #16
astuyvenberg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's precisely my point regarding the rat race - what is one trying to catch up to? Is there economic or social anxiety at 350k/yr which evaporates at 400k/yr?

Absolutely. Purchasing real estate (or even a Tesla, etc) is out of reach for people like me, and likely will be for 10+ years from now. Say someone makes 150% or more of what I make (ergo are valued 150% superior in a fair labor market) and they can save far more and build a their net worth significantly faster even with a more luxurious lifestyle.

But the person earning 150% more than _them_ isn't purchasing a Tesla. It's a Lamborghini or a Bugatti. It's not a 3br home in SF - it's a summer home in Napa, or a chalet in Tahoe.

The person earning 150% more than _them_ is coveting the latest Bell Jetranger, or Gulfstream G700.

The obsession for more is the same at all levels.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#42

Post by pjc50 »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #16
astuyvenberg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's precisely my point regarding the rat race - what is one trying to catch up to? Is there economic or social anxiety at 350k/yr which evaporates at 400k/yr?

Absolutely. Purchasing real estate (or even a Tesla, etc) is out of reach for people like me, and likely will be for 10+ years from now. Say someone makes 150% or more of what I make (ergo are valued 150% superior in a fair labor market) and they can save far more and build a their net worth significantly faster even with a more luxurious lifestyle.

> valued 150% superior in a fair labor market

Dropping all this nonsense about the labour market being "fair" will help you deal with the reality of it. Interviews have a huge arbitrary element in them of personal preference, and end up selecting for "looks and sounds like the interviewer" or "went to the right school" far more often than they would like. And remember the era of noncompete agreements?

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#43

Post by csomar »

mozey wrote: post #35
csomar wrote: post #33

> Looking back, I also feel like I was frequently compared agaisnst other children. As a reminder that life is a competition, and you don’t want to be behind. I don't know how old you are but life is a competition. At the very fundamental level, all species are competing with each other for survival. Your mother was not mislead, she knows that in order to survive in this jungle, you need to be competitive. And given…

> in order to survive in this jungle, you need to competitive It's funny when people use jungle as an example to make this argument. Cooperation might be even more important than competition in an actual jungle.

Except that people are going to cooperate with those who are more competitive. So...

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#44

Post by csomar »

gameswithgo wrote: post #38
csomar wrote: post #33

> Looking back, I also feel like I was frequently compared agaisnst other children. As a reminder that life is a competition, and you don’t want to be behind. I don't know how old you are but life is a competition. At the very fundamental level, all species are competing with each other for survival. Your mother was not mislead, she knows that in order to survive in this jungle, you need to be competitive. And given…

taken too far this outlook leads to missed opportunities. other successful people aren’t always going to want to cooperate with someone who is too cuttthroat and selfish. sometimes less is more.

I'm not sure why competitive is being interpreted as negative selfish behavior here. Depending on the context/environment, it might mean more generous or more cooperative. Which is still a competitive trait.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#45

Post by madsbuch »

csomar wrote: post #33

> Looking back, I also feel like I was frequently compared agaisnst other children. As a reminder that life is a competition, and you don’t want to be behind. I don't know how old you are but life is a competition. At the very fundamental level, all species are competing with each other for survival. Your mother was not mislead, she knows that in order to survive in this jungle, you need to be competitive. And given…

Being competitive seems to be a personality trait that some people possess. I think personalities represented in this thread have this trait and need to handle it.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#46

Post by huffmsa »

astuyvenberg wrote: post #7

This post also resonated with me, especially the quote from /r/cscareerquestions > Got an awesome internship at an interesting company? Well, it wasn’t FAANG, so who cares? Got a FAANG internship? Well it wasn’t one of the good FAANGs, so if you really think about it, you really didn’t accomplish anything. Got into a “Good FAANG”? Well, the other intern works on his own startup idea when he goes home. Why aren’t you…

Wanting to be engineer #5549383 at a big company is a fools errand if you want recognition and reknowned. It's like trying to get famous working as the guy who bolts the doors onto the frame at the Belvedere assembly plant.

The lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the mouse.

All of the people cited in the article (Gates, Musk, Jobs) eschewed "prestige institutions" and worked on what they wanted to work on.

They're incidentally famous because of their success in other areas.

The Kardashians are famous for being famous.

Which do you really want?

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#47

Post by Gatsky »

bambax wrote: post #22

OT, and possibly unpopular here, but this really gets on my nerves: > In Paul Graham’s essay on, How to Do what You Love* he warns us about the prestige trap: (...) you have to like the actual work of novel-writing if you’re going to be good at it; you have to like making up elaborate lies* PG's contempt for anything literary pervades in many of his essays, which may reveal some kind of unhealthy obsession, esp. for…

I think he is just being brusque to make the point. If he had written "you have to like constructing fantastic worlds and intriguing characters" it would obscure the message. I mean, it seems unlikely PG hates literature.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#48

Post by pjc50 »

> She would say, “Dave, you only got one award this year. Remember when you won seven last year?”

> If it wasn’t that, maybe it was also because I am gay. My mother was never really happy about this

Ah, the absolute pinnacle of neurosis parenting. That's a solid one-two punch to the child's psyche, which gives them a drive to please while at the same time ensuring it can never be met. Well done; you ensured your child would work hard forever by guaranteeing that no matter how hard they work they won't actually be happy, because they can never meet your standard for approval.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#49

Post by philbarr »

wsxcde wrote: post #6

Thought-provoking article. I got over my obsession with emulating others' success when I realized that a lot of supposedly successful people were successful primarily because they were also lucky. Once you accept that a big factor in whether you'll end up "successful" is just chance, it becomes easier to accept that it may not be entirely under your control and so there's no reason to obsess about it. PG's advice, wh…

> At least you'll have had fun doing your thing.

Whilst working 40+ hours a week for someone who was lucky enough that "the rest did follow."

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#50

Post by huffmsa »

astuyvenberg wrote: post #41
akhilcacharya wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Purchasing real estate (or even a Tesla, etc) is out of reach for people like me, and likely will be for 10+ years from now. Say someone makes 150% or more of what I make (ergo are valued 150% superior in a fair labor market) and they can save far more and build a their net worth significantly faster even with a more luxurious lifestyle.

But the person earning 150% more than _them_ isn't purchasing a Tesla. It's a Lamborghini or a Bugatti. It's not a 3br home in SF - it's a summer home in Napa, or a chalet in Tahoe. The person earning 150% more than _them_ is coveting the latest Bell Jetranger, or Gulfstream G700. The obsession for more is the same at all levels.

Ooo I hadn't seen that they'd announced the 700. Been holding off on the 650 waiting for a refresh.
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